How many rounds is your average combat?

[kosmit]

What do you mean by force casting and spell stacking?

[Etorian]

They are 1st edition talent knacks (we are still using the 1st ed books because we are dusty old dinosaurs) I don't have the books with me but I believe it is along these lines.

Force casting allows a caster to thread a spell and cast it in the same turn. To do so the caster takes 3 strain per thread. The threads are woven no roll required. Cast as normal.

Spell Stacking allows you to cast more than one spell in a turn as long as the spells all have the same target. I believe the cost is 2 strain per spell past the first. One spellcasting roll to hit or miss for all the spells.

I maybe wrong on the strain for each as I am at work but that's the jist

[Kasbak]

[Gkeckley]

Spell stacking is still a knack in third edition and it does cost 2 strain per spell but you count all spells including the first. I do not think force casting is in third. Which book were these two knacks located in in first edition.

[Etorian]

Fairly certain they are both in the manual of mystic secrets. If not, Arcane mysteries of Barsaive. I always have them both sitting next to me when I'm dealing with casters so it gets hazy sometimes. Plus the players keep track of that for themselves, I've played with them long enough to trust 'em.

[Kasbak]

[Gkeckley]

Ok your numbers look about like what I have seen for the mage. The problem with razor orb is two threads. Best case scenario is you cast it every other round so you can not keep up. If you are using force casting to cast the spell every round that could explain a lot. I was actually lowballing the warriors damage not counting rings of accuracy and other threads as not all groups would necessarily have those. By circle 7 the warrior in the group was doing step 42 plus 2 karma ( 1 for circle 7 ability and 1 for crushing blow) for an average of step 50 on each damage roll. At circle 11 he is averaging closer to 70 points per damage roll. I agree you are burning through a heck a lot of strain and karma as the warrior. It really gets obscene. Usually around 8 strain and 7 karma a round at circle 7 when they are going all out. That does not even count if they use aggressive attack. At circle 11 it is even worse. If the warrior goes all out and takes 11 attacks with frenzy plus crushing blow, shield beater for the attacks that do not crit and critical hit for those that do, and aggressive attack. He burns through about 38 strain and 44 karma. The damage step is either step 73 when he gets critical hit or step 60 without critical hit but he ignores 12 points of armor. It was crazy the first time I saw it happen. Nothing that was a serious threat was left. Granted he could only do this once but do you really need it more than that one time.

[kosmit]

How is working Force Casting in your groups? Illusionist in my team always say that her spells take too much time to cast. I thought about giving her enhanced matrix objects but Force Casting might be an option. You don't find it unbalanced?

[Etorian]

For us not really. Of the two stacking is the one that gets us into trouble. With the casters' low UR/DR and the already strong utility that most of the physical adepts have we've never really had anyone feel the casters had done anything more than "catch up" with the rest of the group when it comes to forced casting. If you're worried about balance increase the strain cost per thread or have them still have to make the roll for weaving so that they run the risk of failure while still taking strain.

This is all based on a 1st ed group though, I haven't looked at the changes to the different disciplines in 3rd ed. to tell you if it would be a different story. My guess would be no, though I come from a give benefits to the weaker player rather than nerf the stronger school of GMing.

[kosmit]

I found Force Casting in Manual of Mystic Secrets but it's written that you need still need one round for weaving (you can weave them for Strain in one round) and one for casting.

In 3rd edition there is talent called Multi-Weaving that takes Simple Action and allow to Weave Thread(s) and cast it in the same round.

Notation for new edition developement: Why talents like multi-weaving need to be tested instead of giving something to regular Thread Weaving? Same for other talents like True Shot which could be applied to Missile Weapons. The other is Second Attack, Weapon etc. Why not make them Knacks to use with Melee Weapons?