Clarification on Surprise Strike, and "Surprised"

[Flagg]

Hi,

I'm taking my first stab at using Surprise Strike (edit: pun completely unintended, sorry) since 1st Edition, and I have a few questions to make sure I understand the mechanics correctly.

As I read it, in order to use Surprise Strike, the opponent must first be Surprised (PG 228), which causes him to lose all actions for the round and take a -3 to PD and SD. Right?

That basically means that a character using Surprise Strike must have superior initiative to his opponent, so that he may Surprise him before striking, unless for some reason the opponent is already Surprised from a previous character's action that round. Am I still correct?

Since the opponent must somehow be Surprised for Surprise Strike to be used, does than implicitly mean that the attack used with Surprise Strike automatically takes advantage of the opponent's lowered physical defense?

I think the wording in the book is fairly clear, I'd just like some confirmation because it seems to mean that the talent is A) only applicable in a very limited set of circumstances, and B) when combined with Conceal Object becomes incredibly powerful because whipping out a concealed dagger, even if it misses its mark, leaves the opponent as basically a sitting duck for the rest of the round, unable to do anything and having a defense penalty to boot. A thief with a good initiative roll can essentially declare "free punches" with Conceal Object, and allow his allies to totally gank an enemy for the remainder of the round.

Do I have this all straight?

[Flagg]

[Welt]

[arma]

Right. More plainly:
IT says the adept gets the benefit of Surprise. That does not mean the target is Surprised, nor that the target suffers the disadvantages of Surprised (he doesn't suffer from the Situational Modifier).
This is also why the PER Test is mentioned explicitly, because normally, it occurs only with the Situational Modifier as a whole. The rules for the PER Test are the same as for Surprised, however. The DN is situational, and you can use the Detection DN, but you can also modify it.

[Flagg]

So to summarize, Surprise Strike doesn't actually surprise the opponent, nor does it require him to be "Surprised" (as defined on p228), but Conceal Object combined with drawing a weapon can cause an opponent to be "Surprised". Do I have it right?

[Welt]

[Flagg]

I'm totally confused. Can someone write up a quick combat example in which both Surprise Strike is used, as well as Conceal Object, and explain what state the opponent is in at any given time?

[Welt]

K, I'll try.

A) Regular Surprise Strike

Guard is patrolling wall.
Poorth the Thief flies up the wall and sneaks up on Guard from behind.
Guard's Per test to hear him vs Silent walk result fails.
Thus Thief gets to open the combat with regular Surprise, a "surprise round" happens.
Only one combatant can act, so Initative is moot this round.
Thief attacks Guard, Guard is at -3 PhD from Surprise.
Thief stabs guard from behind, but Blindside penalty is not applied, it is "included" in and superseded by Surprised.
Thief may use Suprise Strike for his damage test(s) this round, since his target is Surprised.
Let's say the Surprise Strike didn't kill the Guard, so Poorth is now in trouble, squishy Windling that he is.
"surprise round" is over, regular combat resumes.

B) Using Concealed Weapons
Next round, now a regular combat round.
Thief probably wins Initative (probably higher Dex and lighter armor than Guard)
Thief produces a previously concealed weapon (regular draw weapon action, simple action)
Guard fails his Perception test to notice the weapon.
Guard is not surprised as such (he still sees Thief, knows Thief is there and can attack Thief)
However, Guard will not see the attack coming (where DID the Windling hide that thing anyway? O.O)
This is represented by Thief resolving his attack *as if* the target were Surprised.
This at the very least means Surprise Strike is usable, probably also that attack is made at -3 to Guard's PhD
(The Guard's PhD isn't *actually* at -3 though, If there were other attackers they would use normal PhD. Only thief benefits.)
Thief stabs Guard. Surprise Strike knocks Guard unconscious.
"I used to guard the loot, but then I took a Windling Sword to the knee. *THUD*"
If Guard had remained conscious, Guard could have attacked Thief normally this round.
Damn Windlings, always rolling dragon-slaying amounts of damage with their pinpricks. -.-

That help? (Also, corrections/factcheck welcome)

[Flagg]

Yes, that does clarify things for me nicely, thank you. I don't think the stuff in the book makes this clear, though.

[Welt]