special combat actions and initiative

[galafrone]

Just a doubt.
will special actions penalties (special actions that need to be declared before the initiative roll, like split movement, full defense) be counted also for initiative purposes ?
for example the harried penalty that is due to split movement or the -3 penalty due to full defense are counted in for initiative purposes ?
thanks

[Flagg]

Are you asking if these modifiers apply to the initiative roll itself? No.

[Telarus_KSC]

According to the rules, Initiative Tests are a specific Effect Test (and all Effect Tests are a subset of Action Tests).

In my reading, that means you apply all current penalties you have while rolling Initiative.

Also, because you sometimes roll Talents instead of the base Init Step, things like Wound Penalties and Taunt results should also be considered applicable, by the current rules. I have been running it as such in my current Campaign.

This isn't how I did it in 1/2nd ed... and I'm considering the effects of this.


I have some ideas about this, but would like to hear how others have been running it.

[arma]

I wouldn't apply them.
These things usually go for a round, they apply to whatever happens in a round.
Technically, from the description of combat, declaring actions and initiative may be part of the round. On the other hand, from what the whole method stands for, declaring and initiative are set aside somehow because nothing actually happens there in the fictional space, it's all rules, and there is no real "in-game time" when there's no running initiative count.
I'd see it as in "in-between rounds" phase, and only use those modifiers that explicitly refer to initiative (Going Inside a Shield, for example).
Also makes things easier if you can just read it off the sheet.

(It's not so much about Action vs. Effect Tests, IMO. That distinction is mainly about the rule of one not applying to Effect Tests. It's about timing. And there's very different rules for when things kick in. For example, Harried from Running only kicks in when you start Running. Split Movement runs "that" round. The idea about bonuses and penalties is that you buy one for the other. You may go defensive but that means your offense is penalized. And the thought is that both go for the same period. If you would apply the penalty to initiative, you'd have a penalty at a time when there's no bonus, because no one attacks you during the declaring actions phase.)

[galafrone]

ok, it's fine.
other conditional penalties like wounds, taunts etc are applied ?
the harried condition enforced by being attacked in the previous round by 4 or more opponents ?
i will say yes to wounds, taunts and "carryover" effects, but the harried enforced by being attacked by 4+ opponents no, it's dependant on what they do.
if they did last round isnt wrote on stone they will attack me all 4 also this round.
that mechanic is slightly more difficult to translate into a "flowing" mechanic for initiative rolls

[arma]

Pretty much everything that runs several rounds affects initiative.
4+ opponents only gives you a Harried while they're actually there*, so that's not a full-round condition, but if they're there at the end of the round, I'd apply it.

*it's more about them being there than about them attacking.

[Telarus_KSC]

Good clarification, I like limiting it to modifiers that last 1 round+.

I still have some other ideas about making Initiative a little more tactical, but I'll start a new thread.