Etehereal Darkness spell question

[Tattered Rags]

[True Neutral]

There does seem to be a distinct discrepancy between the example of Wizard Tomas on page 210 and the spell description of Astral Sensing that specifically states it allows the sensing of hidden objects. Perhaps the example meant to say that the Wizard used the talent Astral Sight and that's why "astral sensing" was not capitalized as it normally when the name of a spell is written. If so, then the example is just badly worded and supports the idea that Astral Sight does not allow one to see through opaque objects and therefore would not allow someone to see through Ethereal Darkness to target a namegiver inside it.

I agree with Tattered Rags though that while the Talent (and Windling natural ability) of Astral Sight would not penetrate Ethereal Darkness, the "enhanced" version Astral Sense would allow the Wizard using it to detect any *mystical presences* (presumably only things with a living pattern) inside the cloud. So Wizard Tomas could use his Astral Sensing spell, sense a namegiver pattern cloaked in Ethereal Darkness and cast a Mind Dagger spell at it successfully.

Reading through this spell description again, I think it's important to note it seems there is a distinct difference between this sensing and sight. Note that the description explains that a mage will take time to "sweep the area and verify that an astral presence is not coming from a comrade." I submit that the point here is that the spell Astral Sensing shows all patterns in the 30 yard range, but without the astral imprints that define physical characteristics like shape, size and location.

As a side note, this may also be why the spell doesn't cause Strain. Maybe the Astral Sight's mental combining of the images, the overlay of physical objects, their astral imprints and their patterns is so difficult that it wears the user down.

With this in mind, how long does it take for a Wizard using Astral Sensing to find a particular pattern? If they are in a pitched battle with ten Namegivers on the field including one Nethermancer that has cast Ethereal Darkness on herself, what would be a reasonable target or number of successes required to pick out the Nethermancer among the other nine Namegiver patterns (and various others, magical weapons, spells, etc)?

[Tattered Rags]

[Baravakar]

[Slimcreeper]

It's always bothered me that seeing the magical imprint of something intensely magical was harder than seeing the imprint of something weaker. So you are in a dragon's lair and you see the imprint of the Magical Lute of No Importance but not the dragon? Weird.

[Baravakar]

[Mataxes]

The difference in the Astral Sight talent description is an error -- it should be as described on page 210.

Imprints are (relatively) easily detected but don't provide much information beyond "there's magical energy/life force here".

Side Note:
In order to use talents/abilities that take advantage of 'astrally sensing' a target (Wizards get a few of these), you need to successfully defeat the target's Mystic Defense -- thereby sensing/detecting the pattern. Being aware of the imprint is not enough.

[Telarus_KSC]

Aaaah, that is a very good clarification, thanks. So, successfully perceiving the Pattern in something's imprint serves as a "lock aquired" for those abilities. Very neat.

[etherial]

I've always described it as "you can tell there's something there, but it's too complicated/shiny to make any sense of."

[Slimcreeper]

But you still have to beat the spell defense to see the imprint, don't you? That's how I remember the RAW, although I just didn't play that way.