New Wrinkles

[etherial]

Now that people are familiarizing themselves with ED4, what are some new wrinkles you are seeing for the first time? I noticed today that ED4 Humans have a built-in weakness they did not have in previous editions: Attribute Maximums. Since you can only raise an Attribute 3 times, that starting Attribute of 19 is even more important in ED4 than it was before, and Humans can't get one. Every other race can, though Orks can only choose between Strength and Toughness.

[Panda]

This is not new to 4E, it was also the case in 3E.

[etherial]

[Mataxes]

So, if I understand you correctly, you're concerned because humans can only purchase an attribute up to an 18 at character creation (assuming they spend more than half their attribute points), where other races that have a bonus to an attribute can start off with a 19 (or higher), and the limit of +3 on attribute raises means humans can only cap out at 21 (Step 8) and others can cap out at 22 (Step 9) or higher?

As Morgan pointed out, the +3 limit was in ED3 as well. Even with that, this isn't anything fundamentally different from earlier editions, as the "cap" has been lowered for everybody. It means that humans can't get to a Step 9 base attribute... but so what? Most of the races can only do that with a couple of attributes, again assuming that they invest a significant amount of their starting resources and a chunk of time and not insignificant Legend Points (at least, for characters of lower than Circle 8).

The idea that a starting attribute of 19 is "important" is... kind of foreign to me.

[Anunnaki]

Hiya,

Here's a synopsis of earlier ED Attribute advancements:

ED1: +1 point in an Attribute per Circle increase; spend LPs only; max. +5 points per Attribute
EDC: Max. +5 points per Attribute, but you have to spend time and money as well as LPs (the ED1 mechanics are an optional rule)
ED3: Same as EDC, but max. +3 points per Attribute

I don't know anything about ED4, but assume it's the same as ED3 in this regard from what has been said.

As you can see, EDC is probably the most generous with regards to overall points (30 Attribute points, assuming you have the time, LPs, and money); it would require a lot of Circle increases in ED1 to match that. ED3 brings that down to 18 Attribute points (assuming time, LPs, and money).

Hope this helps!

Take kaer, James

[etherial]

[etherial]

[Kasbak]

I think I understand where you're coming from now. Given that steps increase in powers of three, and there's a break point in steps between 18 and 19, humans with their highest possible stat can never maximize the increase, because they will forever be one point short of the next step. When the increase cap was 5, this wasn't a concern because the extra two points gave you wiggle room for where your starting value was. Would that be accurate?

In response to that, I really wouldn't worry about it. It's only really going to apply for one stat only on human characters, and even if increasing the step is the juiciest bonus, there are still other benefits to increasing your attribute value. If you've got a player that is hellbent on getting that one extra point on that one stat, you could always introduce some extraordinary means to do it in character. Make it a reward for something like a massive quest for one of the Passions where they will permanently show their favor in the form of the one point increase, or payment from a Great Dragon using some ancient draconic magic for something valuable that they want to trade with. Just make sure to include language ahead of time that the increase can only be done once in a person's lifetime.

From a mechanical standpoint, it's not really a flaw, just a limit, so there's not really a problem to correct. From a play standpoint, if this is something that really motivates a player, use it to fuel the campaign.

[etherial]

[Roth]

There's more to this, but some haven't seemed to care that much about it.