Shaman Circle 3 Karma Ability

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Mcgarnagle
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:43 am

Shaman Circle 3 Karma Ability

Post by Mcgarnagle » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:29 pm

Quick Question. The karma ability at Circle 3 for the Shaman is:
The adept may spend a Karma Point on a test to Summon or interact with a spirit.
Can an extra Karma Point be spent on a spellcasting test when casting any spell with the spirit annotation? All of these spells seem to state in the description that a spirit is summoned. We've been playing it so that the Shaman can add a karma from the circle 3 benefit. I did notice, however, that "Summon" in the description was capitalized so it might only be referring to the actual Summon talent.

I thought I'd see how other people handle it or if there is an official answer on how this was meant to be used.

Panda
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:30 am

Re: Shaman Circle 3 Karma Ability

Post by Panda » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:45 pm

Greetings,

It's intended for use with the Summon talent and associated interactions—this includes interactions with spirits encountered outside of being summoned. Applying it to attacking spells (e.g., Invoke Crow Tear) starts to provide more benefits than similar Karma abilities, particularly with regard to attack tests.

Hopefully this clears things up.

Best regards,

Morgan

Mcgarnagle
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:43 am

Re: Shaman Circle 3 Karma Ability

Post by Mcgarnagle » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:59 pm

Thanks for the quick reply, Morgan. I was leaning heavily towards that being the case and I think we'll change it to that going forward.

When we were trying to determine the intent of the ability during the game, the shaman player was debating that, because Summon isn't available until 5th circle, the Karma ability at 3rd circle is quite limited compared to most other disciplines; not until they get to 5th circle, that is. realistically, he's not going to use Spirit Talk nearly as frequently as say recovery tests like other 3rd circle discipline karma abilities.

I somewhat agree with them, but I do see that using them on spirit spells is too advantageous. I may have to re-work this one...

Thanks again for the reply!

Panda
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:30 am

Re: Shaman Circle 3 Karma Ability

Post by Panda » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:08 pm

Greetings,

It's entirely fair their Third Circle Karma ability is comparatively limited when it first shows up, only really coming into its own at Fifth Circle with Summon (Beast Spirits). Karma on Recovery tests at Third Circle isn't thematic for the Discipline, particularly when compared to other Disciplines that receive it then and making a Karma ability that is central to what the Discipline is about available at Warden is far too late. It's an unfortunate circumstance based around the framework and talent availabilities (one literally of my design), but it's the best overall compromise, even if there are two Circles that feel a slightly weak in comparison. However slim, the silver lining is those two Circles typically go by relatively quickly and there is a bounty of goodies waiting in Fifth Circle.

My apologies,

Morgan

Mcgarnagle
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:43 am

Re: Shaman Circle 3 Karma Ability

Post by Mcgarnagle » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:05 pm

Oh, no need to apologize. I totally get the design behind it. I've been looking it over and I see that it really was the best option given the framework of how disciplines are laid out.

Also, to clarify, I wasn't suggesting that karma use on recovery tests be given to shamans instead. I was only using it as an example to illustrate the frequency of use for disciplines who do have karma for recovery tests vs. the frequency of use of the Shaman karma bonus.

I suppose I, as the GM, has own some of the problem be not including really any amount of spirits in the game thus far (but, to be fair, we've not had any PCs with spirit interaction abilities until our last session when the shaman joined the group).

I'll try working some scenes with spirits into the game so that they can utilize Spirit Talk (which they just got) and also use that karma ability before reaching 5th circle. We'll see how they take it! ;)

Slimcreeper
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:44 pm

Re: Shaman Circle 3 Karma Ability

Post by Slimcreeper » Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:30 pm

Not to toot my own horn (toot) but I’ve had a lot of fun with spirits in 1879. All of the adventures I’ve posted in the forums use them, if you’re looking for inspiration.

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