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So, magic items. The most interesting and complex thing about Earthdawn.

My party just got their first one and they are ready to go to town on it! Problem is . . . I'm still confused specifically how they work.

Specifically, how do they find out the knowledge they need? It says they need an Item History roll, but what if they don't have that Talent? It also mentions Thread Sight, but it literally mentions it once and that's it. Can they pay someone else to do it for them? Or is it a personal thing?

Item history:

This is a purchasable service at most major towns and I'd dare say all cities. I believe the Player's Guide provides recommended price based on the vendor's proficiency with the Talent. Keep in mind, the players will need to leave the item with the vendor for a week, meaning they either need to hang around for the duration or make an agreement to come back to retrieve it, and the results, later. The roll itself still determines success.

They way we do it is a bit open-ended. A base assumption of attribute step 6 is made for vendors. Player's pick the Talent rank they're willing to pay for, with the in-game manifestation being that they shop around until they find someone with that rank. Given the length of time involved, and the fact that this IS an Adept, the roll will get the standard Step 4 karma. Results can still fail, in which case the standard vendor behavior (I believe RAW) is that they refund half the price.

Example 1: Adepts contract a Item History Rank 6 Adept vendor. The cost is 300 silver (IIRC, it's 50 silver/rank; I may be wrong). The mystic defense of the item is 15. A week passes, and the vendor makes their Item History test (Step 12 + Step 4 karma).

Schrodinger's Result 1: The test fails with a result of 14. The vendor returns 150 silver due to the failure. Players are out 150 silver and a week. So sad.

Schrodinger's Result 2: The test successes with a result of 21, granting two successes. The vendor keeps the full 300 silver but does not charge extra due to multiple successes. Process the successes as normal (per Thread Item information in Player's Guide).

Weaving Threads:

This is covered pretty thoroughly in the Player's Guide, it just has bits and pieces scattered all over the place. Thread Sight actually has a multi-paragraph write up somewhere in the Astral Space area, I believe under Astral Sensing. Basically, it's just an explanation of how Threadweaving tests is used to weave threads to Thread Items: Adepts need to be able to perceive the Pattern of the Thread item in order to weave a thread to it.

You're my boy blue, thanks.

Additionally - Do they need to do this if an item does NOT have a Key Knowledge to find out it does not have one? How do they know if it does or not?

Thread Items require a Key Knowledge, whether it's a fact or a deed. This is a requirement. Rank 1 must have one. Now, for simple items (e.g., Novice crafted items), it may only HAVE the one - but it WILL have one.

The Undying wrote:Thread Items require a Key Knowledge, whether it's a fact or a deed. This is a requirement. Rank 1 must have one. Now, for simple items (e.g., Novice crafted items), it may only HAVE the one - but it WILL have one.

Okay, I think this is what I still need to grasp my head around.

Thread Items are generally "more powerful" / legendary items with a history to them. "Simple items" are magical items that are imbued with magic but really haven't seen much of the outside world, right?

Sorry, I may have misinterpreted your question.

Let's take an example item:

Rank 1: Key Knowledge.
Rank 2: none.
Rank 3: Key Knowledge.
Rank 4: none.
Rank 5: none.
Rank 6: Key Knowledge.
Rank 7: none.

Unfortunately, my recollection without the rulebook is starting to blur, and a lot depends on how you actually play at the table. Others would really need to chime in here and correct my sudden stupidity.

Option 1: A successful Item History reveals the number of ranks, the rank effects, and which ranks have key knowledge. HOWEVER, the Test Knowledge (if I'm using my term correctly) - the thing they have to answer or do - is only revealed on an effective test result. Example: someone with Rank 1 Item History could roll incredible well and get three successes, but because of the Talent limit, they only uncover the Test Knowledge for the first test (Rank 1); other success are lost. In a similar situation with someone having Rank 2, they'd get the first two Test Knowledges (Rank 1 and Rank 3) but not the last. This thoroughly spoils any surprise of the item as all ranks are revealed, BUT it keeps a player from feeling cheated later when they might find out they really don't want the later ranks and, consequently, feel like the existing investment was wasted.

Option 2: A successful Item History reveals only the effective test result and all rank effects below it. MAYBE they learn the max ranks, but not what ranks above their effective test result. Using the Item History Rank 1 example again, they would only achieve the Item Rank 1 & 2 effect. Using the Item History Rank 2 example again, they could achieve all effects up to Rank 5; Rank 6 & 7 are still not available.

Endrek03 wrote:Thread Items are generally "more powerful" / legendary items with a history to them. "Simple items" are magical items that are imbued with magic but really haven't seen much of the outside world, right?

"Magical items" and "Thread items" are different things. "Magical items" (e.g., that one size fits all hat) do not have a pattern, and Adepts do not weave any threads to it to access its effects. The Adept just performs any necessary action to activate the item (e.g., put hat on head) and the item performs its effect (e.g., grows/shrinks to be the perfect fit). "Thread items" have a pattern, and Adepts must weave a thread to it to access its effects. The rank of the thread determines what ranks of the item the Adept has access to. Adepts cannot weave a thread to an item of a rank higher than the last knowledge Key Knowledge. Each rank improvement thread (e.g., going from Rank 1 to Rank 2) either "replaces" the last thread or "strengthens" the existing thread to reach the higher rank, whichever flavor you like.

With regards to the Key Knowledge thing, here's an example.

Remember the item I just described with Key Knowledges at 1, 3, and 6? Let's say that somehow the Adept has learned the Research Knowledge - answer - for the Test Knowledges at 1 and 6. That doesn't mean s/he can weave to Rank 1, 2, 6, and 7. It means they can only weave UP to Key Knowledge they do not know, which is at Rank 3. The fact that they know the Key Knowledge for 6 is meaningless until they learn the one at 3.

The Undying wrote:Unfortunately, my recollection without the rulebook is starting to blur, and a lot depends on how you actually play at the table. Others would really need to chime in here and correct my sudden stupidity.

You're close, but to clarify:

In your example, a character with Rank 2 Item History would learn the Test Knowledge (the "question") for Rank 1 (always* the item Name), and that there isn't a Test Knowledge for Rank 2.

Once the character has successfully learned the Rank 1 Research Knowledge (the "answer" to the "question"), they could then weave the thread for Rank 1 and Rank 2.

(* Technically, almost always, but there better be a really interesting reason why not, because Names are important.)

Ah, I need to go back and re-read the Talent. I couldn't remember if Item History Rank unlocked (a) up to Thread Item Rank or (b) up to Key Knowledge number.

Example with Item History 4:

(a) Can determine Key Knowledges up to Rank 4, so the ones at 1 and 3.

(b) Can determine the first 4 Key Knowledges, so all three: 1, 3, and 6.

Sounds like you're saying it's A.

The Undying wrote:Ah, I need to go back and re-read the Talent. I couldn't remember if Item History Rank unlocked (a) up to Thread Item Rank or (b) up to Key Knowledge number.

Example with Item History 4:

(a) Can determine Key Knowledges up to Rank 4, so the ones at 1 and 3.

(b) Can determine the first 4 Key Knowledges, so all three: 1, 3, and 6.

(a) is the correct way to do it, and has been since the earliest days.