Ardanyan questions

Discussion on game mastering Earthdawn. May contain spoilers; caution is recommended!
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snerrick
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:16 pm

Ardanyan questions

Post by snerrick » Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:31 pm

I ran Earthdawn way back (1st edition) and am now starting GMing again with 4th Edition. First adventure will be Ardanyan's revenge. After reading a lot of the sourcebooks and the adventure itself I still have some questions that would like to ask:

(spoiler-alert)

1) Leldrin is an Illusionist - is this something that is clear for all to see? Can you somehow know och read that a person is an adept, what discipline and circle? How can that information look like in-game? I was thinking that he might try to look like a Wizard or such since there was a history regarding illusionist in the past in the Kaer (forbidden for dwarfs, if i remember correctly)

2) Rashomon and Raggok - as I understand the passion went mad during the scourge. For the good people living in the Kaer that information is not available right? Is it fair to believe that for the people in the Kaer that stay believe Rashomon exist? That is except for the once following the new mad passion..

Oh and b t w english is not my first language but I hope my q is clear enough.

Thanks in advance

Sharkforce
Posts: 476
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:39 am

Re: Ardanyan questions

Post by Sharkforce » Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:51 pm

I don't know about 1) for sure, as I am not familiar with the adventure, but it would be quite difficult even for a magician to fool people into thinking they're a different discipline, even for an illusionist, at low circles. you can't tell just by looking at them (even with astral sight), but the spells and talents involved are quite different. YMMV, but I find it fairly unlikely that an illusionist could pretend to be a wizard successfully (on the other hand, successfully pretending to not be an illusionist sounds much more plausible... pandagaminggrove.com recently made a post about half-adepts for example, here: https://pandagaminggrove.blogspot.com/2 ... -half.html and I think that would be a *much* easier disguise to pull off)

for 2) I think it likely became quite obvious for almost everyone. first of all, anyone in a kaer large enough to have had *any* questors of rashomon during the scourge it would have become extremely obvious that something was going terribly wrong. and secondly, questors are extraordinary people who have been granted powers by the passions, but they aren't the sole followers of the passions; in all probability, any warriors (or non-adept soldiers) in the kaer would have likely called upon rashomon frequently, and it seems likely rashomon would have responded at some point (questors are not the only people who interact with the passions after all) and it would have become well-known that something was wrong.

now, this is not to say that in a given kaer you couldn't decided that nobody followed rashomon's ideals for centuries and thus nobody knows... but, it seems improbable.

Belenus
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Re: Ardanyan questions

Post by Belenus » Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:54 pm

Hi,

I mastered this adventure myself, but the old, free version. Not the revised one.

1) I think you're playing this adventure with a group starting in this Kaer? Here I think it is common knowledge, that he is an Illusionist.
Nothing's wrong about being one.
Also: At the end of the adventure, when the council is informed about Illusions being the reason this Kaer is shut off from the outer world, they automatically know that Leldrin is the cause.
About sensing/knowing someones Discipline: An Adept of the same Discipline can use half-magic if he knows the other person, after he for example heard the name. Also, there is a really big discussion about what Astralsight is able to do. Some (not all) are of the opinion, that an Astralsight test against the Mystic Defense of another Adept with perhaps enough successes, should be sufficient to recognize the Diszipline (ofc it is a must, that an Adapt of this Discipline was seen with Astralsight at some point before). Some think, that after seeing the Astral imprint, an additional Patterncraft test might be enough to understand the Discipline(s).
Since there is no official answer to those questions except this one: "Play it as you see it fit for your group", I won't give you another one :-D

2) Most Kaers only discovered the changes in the Passions, after they noticed changes in the behaviour in the Questors of those. After they were capured for doing evil deeds, most of them will proudly have talked about being Questors of Raggok and not Rashomon, etc. Or the spellcasters noticed changes in the Astral surroundings of them. Perhaps even some statues built for those Passions changed their appearance over night.
As for this adventure: The Temple of Greed (I guess it was called this way?) was their prove for the changes of the passions, if I remember correctly.
As for Ardanyan (the city, not the kaer): All eleven Passions have a shrine (two have a Temple) in this town, so even the three mad ones. But here it is described aswell, that those are a commonly avoided.

Greetings
Belenus

snerrick
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:16 pm

Re: Ardanyan questions

Post by snerrick » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:02 am

Thank you both for the input. Great to be able to pitch questions and ideas like this to fellow GM´s. I really appreciate it. :)

Some thoughts:

1)
Reg. he is an illusionist - I would assume he will stand out a bit as a "prime suspect" pretty early. Since the history with problematic illusions in the Kaer etc. Thats why I thought of maybe he tried to mask that fact somehow. I checked out that link from Panda and will see what I can do. Maybe I also can fill in more illusionists in there and make it not so "exclusive". I want to feed the conflict between dwarfs<>Elves and maybe that can be pitched in there as well. In our games Illusionist often seems to be the culprits.. so don't want to do it so obvious ;-)

Reg. read an Adepts discipline etc - yes, I have read that there are different takes on how that works. Im not sure yet how to deal with it, but I like your texts reg. that. Talents, magic etc are of course maybe the best way of doing it. But I haven't really understand how that meta-thing reg. you can read an adepts circle and such just by looking at them. Maybe I have too little experience in GMing Earthdawn but sometimes I find it gets weird when adepts like present themselfs as a 10th circle Illusionist - it takes a bit of roleplaying away doing the meta-stuff so built in dialogue/interactions etc. But maybe thats just me.

2) The way I understand it in this adventure all of the questors of Rashomon died pretty long ago in the crash of the temple so I guess there need to be some magic involved in finding out that the passion is mad (?). Maybe the protective ward makes this a bit more hard to find out? Maybe the conflicts in the Kaer helps with keeping this "secret" still a bit hidden for people in general? But as you write Sharkforce - maybe it is obvious for all the warriors etc. that have called upon the passion during the years. Im thinking of trying to make this information be more hard to obtained to make it a bit more hard for the heroes. So that they would need to do stuff to know that it has happened, and when they arrive at the city they will be able to put it together if they didnt really looked for in in the Kaer. My players are new to Earthdawn so no previous knowledge.. ;-)

Sharkforce
Posts: 476
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:39 am

Re: Ardanyan questions

Post by Sharkforce » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:56 pm

in earthdawn, "circle 10" is both an in-game and out-of-game thing.

think of it like martial arts today where you might be a "brown belt" or a "blue belt" depending on your level of skill. you advance to the next circle by proving to an existing member of the discipline who has already reached that circle that you are ready to advance, and then being trained in the next circle abilities (after which they must develop *those* abilities before they're ready to advance to the circle after that, and so on).

of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that every adept is perfectly open about their abilities, and there can still be quite a bit of difference in what "circle 4" means between different adepts even in the same discipline even if an adept gives you that information. some disciplines even almost have two or more paths you could choose (a thief, for example, could be a melee fighter, a ranged fighter, or could have no combat focus at all. a beastmaster could have an animal companion or focus on mobility to support their own combat abilities. and of course, any adept can use skills to expand their options.

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