FASA Games, Inc.

Statistics:Posted by yankeeschic — Tue Jun 03, 2025 11:01 am

]]> 2025-05-25T10:25:472025-05-25T10:25:47 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=885&p=24443#p24443 <![CDATA[Re: Ships Air- vs. Waterborne]]> исти283BettCHAPRumaJuliГореКурьNichфельAllaTescБлагЛогиSG22ЛогуRaimTescRQ00TescхороMounизло
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Statistics:Posted by yankeeschic — Sun May 25, 2025 10:25 am

]]> 2018-07-08T09:59:542018-07-08T09:59:54 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=885&p=6895#p6895 <![CDATA[Re: Ships Air- vs. Waterborne]]>
(that was a Monty Python joke by the way!)

Statistics:Posted by Calamrin — Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:59 am

]]> 2018-07-08T09:17:282018-07-08T09:17:28 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=885&p=6894#p6894 <![CDATA[Re: Ships Air- vs. Waterborne]]>
Let's have a minute of silence for fallen comrades from Theran fleet under the Lake Ban with Shivalahala's V'strimon ritual...

Statistics:Posted by Kosmit — Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:17 am

]]> 2018-07-07T19:16:532018-07-07T19:16:53 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=885&p=6887#p6887 <![CDATA[Re: Ships Air- vs. Waterborne]]>

Lursi wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:23 pm

no radar like powers exceeding a few hundred feet.

Airships almost never operate at night. I don't know if any of the books of any edition ever gives any specific penalty for doing so, but nobody attempts it except in the most desperate circumstances. Therefor a series of watchtowers is a fairly good detection system (except for when there is low overcast, but that has it's own risks almost as bad as operating at night).

Air Elementals and Ally spirits could probably be tasked with the job, as could trained birds such as eagles.

It might even not be considered unreasonable for a GM to expand a Sky Raiders half magic to include the ability to detect airships at range increments of scores of miles. But you are correct that few governments in Barsaive have ether the resources nor the will to invest in true security from airborne incursion, unless the GM feels it is necessary that they have done so.

Statistics:Posted by ChrisDDickey — Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:16 pm

]]> 2018-07-07T14:23:182018-07-07T14:23:18 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=885&p=6885#p6885 <![CDATA[Re: Ships Air- vs. Waterborne]]> Like entering an enemies shore is far too easy with the available air ship density and no surface to air radar like powers exceeding a few hundred feet.

A waterborne vessel has much more limited sight and allows you to build a different dramaturgical arc. Creatures can also attack much more surprisingly. A character falling off can be rescued with some effort. One can find a trail of wreck parts...

One can further more easily allow the group to steal a small sailing boat than an airship that will be surely hunted down in a different way.

I agree, a group with an airship is a fun hook for an adventure but at 3rd circle it is probably more credible to capture something smaller and get away with it.

Statistics:Posted by Lursi — Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:23 pm

]]> 2018-07-06T18:50:002018-07-06T18:50:00 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=885&p=6880#p6880 <![CDATA[Re: Ships Air- vs. Waterborne]]>

Bonhumm wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:22 pm

How did no one reverse-engineer one yet is beyond me.

Direction Intervention from Upandal himself.

Statistics:Posted by etherial — Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:50 pm

]]> 2018-07-06T18:22:092018-07-06T18:22:09 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=885&p=6878#p6878 <![CDATA[Re: Ships Air- vs. Waterborne]]>
1- Let's not forget that the T'skrang have exclusive knowledge of how to build fire engines so those building sail ships are not really doing it by choice. How did no one reverse-engineer one yet is beyond me.

2- About the price difference: The fire engine boat might seems a lot more expensive than a sail ship to us because we see it as the difference between (today) building a old fashioned galleon and a modern destroyer. That is not the case. T'skrang fire engine ships are more like old 'south' paddle steamer. Yes the metal and elemental kernel would be expensive but would it be significantly more expensive than 2-3 masts with half a square mile of canvas? I have not checked the stats (if there is even any) for ships but I would also expect a galleon to have a order of magnitude more storage space than a drakkar. For a trading ship that would be the single most important factor.

Even with today's technology, I tend to think it would be cheaper for us to build an old Mississippi style paddle-wheeler than a Spanish galleon.

Something else: since airship 'tricks' elements to make air act as water, that would mean that (theoretically) a fire engine would work on an airship but T'skrangs don't seem much interested in that.

Statistics:Posted by Bonhumm — Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:22 pm

]]> 2018-07-06T17:19:042018-07-06T17:19:04 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=885&p=6873#p6873 <![CDATA[Re: Ships Air- vs. Waterborne]]>
For flying vs waterborne comparisons, the "Small Drakkar" is only slightly inferior to the "Sailing ship" but only a bit more expensive. The "Drakkar" costs about 50K compared to the Sailing ships 30K, but is also very clearly better in many ways. They both have identical damage ratings.

One nit-pick. You start out talking about waterborne vs airborne, but end up talking about wooden vs other. My understanding is that many airborne ships are wooden, including all drakkar's. It is mostly only Therian built ships that are stone. So you should not say "wooden ships don't need magic", because wooden airships do. Also, of course, waterborne ships CAN use magic. All ships with a fire engine consume elemental fire kernels. And I would not be surprised to see an otherwise wind powered ship possessed a magical rudder (for example) to increase it's maneuverability.

But I do strongly agree with your central premise, Wooden water sailing ships don't need magic nor elemental kernels to build, so should be cheaper to build and maintain than more magical ships. They should have larger cargo capacity or other operational advantages.

Statistics:Posted by ChrisDDickey — Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:19 pm

]]> 2018-07-05T15:46:202018-07-05T15:46:20 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=885&p=6862#p6862 <![CDATA[Ships Air- vs. Waterborne]]>
I noticed there is no economic reason to take a water based ship. Prices of these in recent editions were very similar.

Even when looking at the price per duari capacity.

That’s something Edition 4 could pick up and change.
Possible changes:
Wooden ships are much cheaper (factor 5-10)
Wooden ships are much larger (can maybe even host a small drakkar)
Wooden ships dont need magic and are hence much easier to build and come in higher numbers.

Any thoughts about this?

Statistics:Posted by Lursi — Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:46 pm

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