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FASA Games, Inc.FASA Games Forums and News 2025-06-03T00:50:44 https://fasagames.com/forum/app.php/feed/topic/654 2025-06-03T00:50:442025-06-03T00:50:44 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=654&p=26046#p26046 <![CDATA[Re: Down Strike and how it might interact with Great Leap and/or splitting movement.]]> audiobookkeepercottageneteyesvisioneyesvisionsfactoringfeefilmzonesgadwallgaffertapegageboardgagrulegallductgalvanometricgangforemangangwayplatformgarbagechutegardeningleavegascauterygashbucketgasreturngatedsweepgaugemodelgaussianfiltergearpitchdiameter
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nameresolutionnaphtheneseriesnarrowmouthednationalcensusnaturalfunctornavelseedneatplasternecroticcariesnegativefibrationneighbouringrightsobjectmoduleobservationballoonobstructivepatentoceanminingoctupolephononofflinesystemoffsetholderolibanumresinoidonesticketpackedspherespagingterminalpalatinebonespalmberry
papercoatingparaconvexgroupparasolmonoplaneparkingbrakepartfamilypartialmajorantquadruplewormqualityboosterquasimoneyquenchedsparkquodrecuperetrabbetledgeradialchaserradiationestimatorrailwaybridgerandomcolorationrapidgrowthrattlesnakemasterreachthroughregionreadingmagnifierrearchainrecessionconerecordedassignment
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Statistics:Posted by yankeeschic — Tue Jun 03, 2025 12:50 am

]]> 2025-05-25T01:00:232025-05-25T01:00:23 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=654&p=24018#p24018 <![CDATA[Re: Down Strike and how it might interact with Great Leap and/or splitting movement.]]> снач504CHAPBettPilaRaptCafeсклаIvanБирюJiyuМогуязыкFiskГринAtlaСодеJeweБелоElseHermCoveскла
TescИндиАртиS900AustсертReneгодоWereКожеЛаврWindWillStevYmcaсертSchiсертPureCleaMartSaraCote
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SonyJeweэкзаBriaВолоscumJustКислБыстRidiСокоавтоэкзаtuchkasКолеRoth

Statistics:Posted by yankeeschic — Sun May 25, 2025 1:00 am

]]> 2018-03-06T12:27:582018-03-06T12:27:58 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=654&p=5627#p5627 <![CDATA[Re: Down Strike and how it might interact with Great Leap and/or splitting movement.]]> Our solution: We replaced all occurances of Down Strike with Crushing Blow. Works fine (for us).

Statistics:Posted by CPFCPF — Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:27 pm

]]> 2018-01-09T04:14:462018-01-09T04:14:46 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=654&p=5148#p5148 <![CDATA[Re: Down Strike and how it might interact with Great Leap and/or splitting movement.]]>
"The Down Strike talent allows a character to inflict greater-than-normal damage on a
target in combat. The character must be using the Gliding Stride Talent or using another
talent to move at least 6 feet above the head of his opponent. The character must scream
like a bird of prey as he drops onto his target. If he hits his opponent, the Down Strike
step substitutes for the Strength step in the Damage Test, causing the blow to inflict extra
damage."

So the original design intent is that it be usable with Gliding Stride (explicitly) and Great Leap (implicitly). Interestingly enough, it was a Warrior talent, while Sky Raiders got Crushing Blow. In Earthdawn Classic they cut down the height requirement to three feet, and added the talent to Cavalrymen, implicitly making it possible to use it from a mount.

"The Down Strike talent allows an adept to use the advantage
of height to inflict additional damage on a target in close combat.
The adept must be at least 1 yard above his target and must declare
the talent’s use before making the attack. The adept makes his
close combat Attack Test as normal. If the test succeeds, the adept
uses his Down Strike step in place of his Strength step for the
Damage Test."

In Third Edition the text was changed yet again, separating the usage requirements into being one yard above the target if on a stable platform, or dropping down on the target from above if not. A sidebar was also added explicitly stating that Down Strike could be used from atop a mount. Finally, Sky Raiders were given Down Strike and Warriors Crushing Blow. This is probably because Warriors lost access to Gliding Stride, while Great Leap remained an iconic Sky Raider Discipline Talent.

"The adept takes advantage of higher ground to deliver more
devastating close combat attacks. He must be in a stable
position at least one yard above his opponent (either mounted or
standing on higher ground), or must jump down onto his oppo-
nent. If his attack is successful, the adept substitutes his Down
Strike Step for his Strength Step on the Damage Test."

As you can see, the Third Edition text was carried through unchanged into Fourth Edition, so was the mounted combat side bar, as well as the assignations of Down Strike to Sky Raiders and Crushing Blow to Warriors. However Down Strike was also added to Beastmasters, who like Sky Raiders get Great Leap as a Disciple Talent. Therefore it seems pretty clear to me that the intent all along was for Down Strike to be usable with Talents such as Gliding Stride and Great Leap which allow an Adept to rise up above their opponent and then drop down on them.

Statistics:Posted by Lys — Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:14 am

]]> 2018-01-08T17:37:222018-01-08T17:37:22 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=654&p=5146#p5146 <![CDATA[Re: Down Strike and how it might interact with Great Leap and/or splitting movement.]]>
Slimcreeper wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:48 pm
I also don't like the visual of a skyraider as a battleaxe on a pogostick
You made me drop my drink so much I laughed there.

Statistics:Posted by Bonhumm — Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:37 pm

]]> 2018-01-08T13:48:332018-01-08T13:48:33 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=654&p=5145#p5145 <![CDATA[Re: Down Strike and how it might interact with Great Leap and/or splitting movement.]]>
I also don't like the visual of a skyraider as a battleaxe on a pogostick, just trying to take advantage of a cheesy two-strain version of Crushing Blow.

Would we be opposed to a Great Leap Knack that provided a bonus for jumping down onto an opponent to attack? Maybe Great Leap vs. PD, +1 to 1st close combat attack test per success? Call it Death From Above. Then the Sky Raider is used to tactically leaping onto tables or balconies and down onto unsuspecting suckers. I haven't looked at Knack costs in a long time, I don't have an opinion for strain/karma. Just a third way here, folks.

Statistics:Posted by Slimcreeper — Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:48 pm

]]> 2018-01-07T20:55:252018-01-07T20:55:25 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=654&p=5144#p5144 <![CDATA[Re: Down Strike and how it might interact with Great Leap and/or splitting movement.]]>
- 'from a stable platform' = not suspended in midair

OR

- jump down = Jumping Downward, Great Leap would be jumping UPward and then falling down.

But you know, that's just my opinion.

Statistics:Posted by Bonhumm — Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:55 pm

]]> 2018-01-07T18:13:102018-01-07T18:13:10 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=654&p=5142#p5142 <![CDATA[Re: Down Strike and how it might interact with Great Leap and/or splitting movement.]]>

Statistics:Posted by Telarus — Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:13 pm

]]> 2018-01-07T17:10:222018-01-07T17:10:22 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=654&p=5141#p5141 <![CDATA[Re: Down Strike and how it might interact with Great Leap and/or splitting movement.]]> combat attacks. He must be in a stable position at least one yard above his opponent
(either mounted or standing on higher ground), or must jump down onto his opponent."

Its definitely OR.

The last part "jump down onto opponent" can be interpreted both ways: you must be above target before jump or at any point of jump before attack.

Sky Rider could be swinging on a rope before jumping down on opponent (its not stable position) and couldn't use Down Strike? Its his signature move....

As GM I always give the players upper hand when in doubt.

Statistics:Posted by RazanMG — Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:10 pm

]]> 2018-01-07T16:46:212018-01-07T16:46:21 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=654&p=5140#p5140 <![CDATA[Re: Down Strike and how it might interact with Great Leap and/or splitting movement.]]> Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:46 pm

]]> 2018-01-07T16:36:452018-01-07T16:36:45 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=654&p=5139#p5139 <![CDATA[Re: Down Strike and how it might interact with Great Leap and/or splitting movement.]]>
Bonhumm wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:50 pm
This is a 'AND' condition, not a 'OR'.
- it did not BEGIN from an higher point than the target ...
- even once the attacker is higher than the target, being suspended in midair does not count as 'a stable platform'.
... you'd have to drop your guard and bend your knees to do that, opening yourself completely to an attack.
I think you are reading a lot more than is actually there. Several misquotes, and several additions of requirements that are not in the text.

As quoted in the 2nd posting. "He must be in a stable position at least one yard above his opponent (either mounted or standing on higher ground), or must jump down onto his opponent." This is most specifically an 'OR' and not an 'AND'. So if you are using the jumping option, the stable ground requirement is moot. If you are using the jumping 'or', the other option can be ignored. Standing, or Jumping. Only need one or the other.

I am not certain where you are getting your requirement that the jumper needs to BEGIN his jump from a higher point than the target. As far as I can tell it is made up from whole cloth. A mortar shell falls down upon it's target regardless of where it was launched from. By the same token I don't see as it makes the slightest bit of difference where somebody leaps from, so long as they are heading downwards when they arrive at the target. I see nothing to even suggest they have to start out higher.

Once again, one of my questions is whether people feel that a Down Strike by somebody using the "jump" option is made in mid air before they land, or if somebody lands first, but then uses the momentum of their leap transferred to their weapon to deliver an especially devastating blow. (or whether it even matters if they are still in the air when they swing).

I am not certain what your last point is supposed to be making. Yes, doing combat stuff moves stuff around. Making a melee attack brings your sword off of "guard". Making a crushing blow means winding your swing up a bit more. In reality leaping around the battlefield like a flea on steroids would probably on net make you harder to hit. But I don't really see the point, it is a magic talent, and has listed game effects and increasing or decreasing your PD is not one of them. There are talents such as Maneuver that do that.

Statistics:Posted by ChrisDDickey — Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:36 pm

]]> 2018-01-07T20:50:152018-01-07T15:50:20 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=654&p=5138#p5138 <![CDATA[Re: Down Strike and how it might interact with Great Leap and/or splitting movement.]]>
So, doing a Great Leap (assuming from the same ground level as the target) does not qualify since:

- it did not BEGIN from an higher point than the target (Great Leap begun at the same ground level as the target)

and

- even once the attacker is higher than the target (at the apex of the Great Leap), being suspended in midair does not count as 'a stable platform'.


Let's be honest here, I think it's clear that although Great Leap count as a free action it was not meant to be used that way. Free Action or not, you'd have to drop your guard and bend your knees to do that, opening yourself completely to an attack.

Statistics:Posted by Bonhumm — Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:50 pm

]]> 2018-01-07T13:34:012018-01-07T13:34:01 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=654&p=5134#p5134 <![CDATA[Re: Down Strike and how it might interact with Great Leap and/or splitting movement.]]> Statistics:Posted by Slimcreeper — Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:34 pm

]]> 2018-01-07T03:51:272018-01-07T03:51:27 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=654&p=5131#p5131 <![CDATA[Re: Down Strike and how it might interact with Great Leap and/or splitting movement.]]> One leap safely brings you from a stable stance, up, over, and down to a landing in another stable place to stand.
I don't think the landing is "falling". If you are leaping to a landing, you can make a down strike.

There is a question about if one makes an attack halfway thorough their leap, if that requires split movement, or falling or something else, but the consensus on that has so far been that it does not.

Statistics:Posted by ChrisDDickey — Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:51 am

]]> 2018-01-07T03:24:012018-01-07T03:24:01 https://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=654&p=5130#p5130 <![CDATA[Re: Down Strike and how it might interact with Great Leap and/or splitting movement.]]> jump down' which is quite different from 'falling down'.

So, the attacker must either be:

a- on a stable platform while, of course, being in melee range.

or

b- be JUMPING DOWN from said STABLE platform, most likely because of range.


All the other examples I've seen so far are NOT from jumping DOWN, they are from jumping UP then FALLING down. This is Earthdawn, not Super Mario.

By jumping down from a platform, the attacker had the ability to time and direct his fall while there would be no way for him to correct his vector once he had begun to jump UP.

Statistics:Posted by Bonhumm — Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:24 am

]]>