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Statistics:Posted by yankeeschic — Tue Jun 03, 2025 12:30 am
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Statistics:Posted by yankeeschic — Sun May 25, 2025 12:40 am
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One: Matrix Sight, can we get a brief description of this?
I'm familiar with Matrix Strike, which includes the description "if the Adept has no way to see the Matrices, then one is chosen at random." Is Matrix Sight a renaming of this, perhaps expanded to include include both sight and strike? Or is it really just the ability to see spell matrices, in which case I'd love to hear ideas on how this is useful enough to fit a Discipline Talent spot.
Two: Morgan mentions that some Talents, specifically Astral Domain and Blood Insight in his examples, are informally designed to interact heavily with the Knack system. Will these Talents have enough oomph to be useful on their own, or are they pretty much just a new kind of Spellcasting that uses Knacks instead?
Statistics:Posted by The Undying — Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:12 am
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- Lion Heart (Option Talent @ Journey): Willpower replacement effect to resist effects allowing Willpower tests.
- Lion Spirit (Option Talent @ Warden): Add RANK to bonus to Mystic Defense and Social Defense against fear and intimidation effects.
- Nethersoul (Discipline Talent @ Circle 14): Bonus Mystic Armor, Bonuses to Mystic and Social Defense against fear and intimidation effects, and the same bonus to tests made to resist those effects.
First, just to be sure, with these three together, I could easily see a Nethermancer pulling a solid 20+ bonus versus fear/intimidation effects easily. Which is cool and totally in flavor. I just want to be sure this is the intent.
Second, just to be sure, Lion Heart is a replacement effect, Lion Spirit is a bonus, and the Nethersoul description in the preview uses the word "bonus." Will this portion of Nethersoul be basically a copy/paste of Lion Spirit?
Statistics:Posted by The Undying — Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:44 am
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Or is that only me? ^^
Anyways, the previews are amazing and makes me long for the book to be in my hands
Statistics:Posted by PiXeL01 — Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:00 am
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Mataxes wrote:Yes, it can be done later, if the character wishes. (Not sure why you would wait... I mean... 1 Blood Magic for +1 Step to a key Attribute? Kind of a no-brainer.)
Totally agree, can't imagine why someone WOULD NOT, but as soon as the word "can" is used, it just begs the questions.Am I the only one that feels like there should be a DEX in there if only just to round it out?Mataxes wrote:Here's the ones that do:
Beastmaster - +3 Toughness
Nethermancer - +3 Willpower
Scout - +3 Perception
Sky Raider - +3 Strength
Troubadour - +3 Charisma
Oh, totally agree. Definitely not trying to say I'm RIGHT or my suggestion is BETTER/BEST, just trying to be helpful where I can be.Mataxes wrote:I appreciate the contributions, but when you don't have the full picture... they may not be applicable.
It's probably the developer in me, I just always shiver at the idea of repeated text. See it twice? Eh, okay. See it three times? Errr *twitch* See it four times? Must ... to be ... CONDENSE! So, for me, using something five times, even if it isn't used for all the Discipline, just makes sense. But, conversely, it also creates more jumping around, which doesn't help if you just want to create tear sheets for players. Pros and cons, forever and always.
Statistics:Posted by The Undying — Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:44 am
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Thing is, not every Discipline gets one of those bonuses. (For example, the Archer doesn't -- they get Blood Bound Bow.) So having some kind of generic description at the start of the section really doesn't apply. It's kind of a coincidence that two of the three Disciplines previewed have those bonuses.
Here's the ones that do:
Beastmaster - +3 Toughness
Nethermancer - +3 Willpower
Scout - +3 Perception
Sky Raider - +3 Strength
Troubadour - +3 Charisma
So only 1/3 of the core Disciplines get a straight Attribute bonus. And not every Discipline gets a blood magic powered ability at C9 -- Thief, for example, simply ignores darkness penalties (including those imposed by spells or other powers). Elementalist and Illusionist get abilities powered by Strain. (That's not all of them, just the ones I can remember offhand.) So a blanket statement doesn't really apply, and we'd end up using just as much text for the exceptions to the general rule.
I appreciate the contributions, but when you don't have the full picture... they may not be applicable.
Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:03 am
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The Undying wrote:
Blood Bound Bow for the Archer isn't permanent, but I otherwise agree with this idea (if it isn't too late for it to be implemented).Advancement Ritual (or whatever you want to label it)
Once achieving Warden, each Adept is instructed in the rites of a one-time Blood Ritual that further refines the Discipline within their Pattern. While there are common elements to the ritual for all Adepts of a shared Discipline, the actual ritual is unique to each individual, drawing up personal experiences, philosophies, and ideals. Some may summon spirits, trading a piece of their Pattern, while others commune with the ghosts of Discipline Masters that have passed into the Nether before them, earning their approval and boon. Regardless of the ritual specifics, it requires eight hours of dedicated time. At the conclusion of the ritual, the Adept takes one permanent point of Blood Damage and receives the Discipline-specific bonus. This Blood Damage is permanent, it cannot be healed, and the Discipline-specific bonus is permanent. An Adept can only perform this ritual once, and while the ritual can be performed at any time once Warden status of the Discipline is achieved, it is commonly performed as the final act in becoming a Warden.
Statistics:Posted by Tattered Rags — Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:50 am
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Also, while I like the fluff, it's gonna be kinda burdensome to write that EVERY TIME. May be too late to be screwing with content if things are going into layout, but my personal recommendation would be to do something like:
[Somewhere in the chapter talking about higher-Circles but before the actual per-Discipline breakdowns]
Then, for each actual Discipline, we end up with something like (for Troubadour):Advancement Ritual (or whatever you want to label it)
Once achieving Warden, each Adept is instructed in the rites of a one-time Blood Ritual that further refines the Discipline within their Pattern. While there are common elements to the ritual for all Adepts of a shared Discipline, the actual ritual is unique to each individual, drawing up personal experiences, philosophies, and ideals. Some may summon spirits, trading a piece of their Pattern, while others commune with the ghosts of Discipline Masters that have passed into the Nether before them, earning their approval and boon. Regardless of the ritual specifics, it requires eight hours of dedicated time. At the conclusion of the ritual, the Adept takes one permanent point of Blood Damage and receives the Discipline-specific bonus. This Blood Damage is permanent, it cannot be healed, and the Discipline-specific bonus is permanent. An Adept can only perform this ritual once, and while the ritual can be performed at any time once Warden status of the Discipline is achieved, it is commonly performed as the final act in becoming a Warden.
Unnatural Charm: (Advancement Ritual) The Adept gains +3 to their Charisma value.
Statistics:Posted by The Undying — Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:39 am
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The Undying wrote:@Rags
This could be a wording re-adjustment based on the feedback they've gotten here. If that's the case, I think the things that are still missing is (A) whether this is optional [who wouldn't, but still] as implied by the "Adept can" start, and (B) must it be done immediately at Advancement?
Yes, the additional verbiage was based on the feedback from the Nethermancer. In fact, since I wrote up the preview that went live today, we've had a more expansive description put into place:This could be a wording re-adjustment based on the feedback they've gotten here. If that's the case, I think the things that are still missing is (A) whether this is optional [who wouldn't, but still] as implied by the "Adept can" start, and (B) must it be done immediately at Advancement?
"Unnatural Charm: The adept performs an eight hour ritual to heighten their senses to mystically enhance their appeal. The ritual is unique to each adept, but tends to be a product of their instruction and personal philosophy, and commonly performed as the final act in becoming a Warden. Some may summon spirits, trading a piece of their Pattern, while others commune with the ghosts of Master Troubadours before them, earning their approval and boon. At the end of the ritual, the adept takes 1 Blood Magic damage and adds +3 to their Charisma Value. Once performed this ritual is permanent."
All of the Disciplines with these powers have a similar description.
Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:22 am
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This could be a wording re-adjustment based on the feedback they've gotten here. If that's the case, I think the things that are still missing is (A) whether this is optional [who wouldn't, but still] as implied by the "Adept can" start, and (B) must it be done immediately at Advancement?
Statistics:Posted by The Undying — Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:17 am
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The Undying wrote:I'd be interested to hear what the thought on that was. I can easily see why you wouldn't want to offer both free matrices as Enhanced + Armored; that would make the 'cost' of spells with base thread 1 much less punitive. However, if matrix-damaging Talents/Spells/Abilities are a bit more common in ED4, it'd be nice if the one free Enhanced matrix were upgraded to Armored.
It's a matter of balance. That is, free defense vs paid offense.To successfully attack a spell matrix, an attacker must have two abilities: one that can see the matrix (like Matrix Sight), and one that can actually target something in astral space (like Ethereal Weapon). I'm fairly sure that, outside of magicians, this requires a character to use at least one (if not two) talent options, and pay Legend to raise them. Certainly doable, but there's an opportunity cost in addition to the Legend -- slots devoted to that are slots not devoted to something else.
Giving magicians a free Armored Matrix means they don't have to pay anything for added defense, and it means matrix attack talents need to be even higher to effectively get through it, meaning more expense for the attacker at no cost to the magician.
Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:05 pm
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(Except Wizard, who get the Split Matrix ability at Circle 9 -- though it now makes the split matrix a Shared matrix, rather than limit it to just 2 spells and costs Blood Magic instead of Strain. So kind of like the ability mentioned by The Undying in the previous post.)
Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:31 pm
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