Statistics:Posted by yankeeschic — Mon Jun 02, 2025 11:32 pm
Statistics:Posted by yankeeschic — Sat May 24, 2025 11:42 pm
But I think Mataxes is right, if it works for your table that the Talent Option slot remain filled and the character can advance the Talent at the reduced rate, go for it.FASA Games, on ED4PG457, wrote:Once it becomes a Discipline Talent, the Talent Option slot is freed up, and the character may learn a new Talent Option from the old Discipline.
Well, no. It's designed to allow for players who played ED1/ED2 and liked that they were the ones who got to pick which Talents were important to their character's vision of their Discipline. It has the bonus side effect of making characters less predictable. It does make character advancement cheaper and faster, but that only really comes up late into Journeyman Tier. Before that, you have one Talent you need to raise, X Talents you want to raise, and you raise one or two other ones to meet the requirement. Once you hit Journeyman, though, the choice of "Which Talent that my character never uses/is already high enough for my satisfaction shall I raise?" defaults to "Any Novice Talent". Eventually you reach the point where it's cheaper to raise a Novice Talent from 1 to N than a Journeyman Talent from N-1 to N.ChrisDDickey wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:40 pmThe optional rule on all talents being used to advance is designed to make advancement faster and cheaper, since a character is not required to purchase ranks in a discipline talent he does not really want or need just to fulfill an arbitrary requirement. He is freer to spend the LP where he wants to. I only see a potential problem of advancement becoming too cheap if the optional rule on all talents being used to advance is being used with multi-disciplining.
This is actually even more permissive than what Mataxes suggested because it doesn't require you to commit to filling that TO slot. You can keep it open as long as you want to advance as an Illusionist and then fill it when you only want to raise Wizard and think there's some usefulness in one of the other Talents.ChrisDDickey wrote:I think that a good house rule, for a GM that does want to allow maximum flexibility, but does not want multi-disciplining to become too inexpensive, would be to count for advancement only those Talents that were Discipline Talents, or that were Talent Options that are occupying a Talent Option slot for the Discipline being advanced. However I would allow unused TO slots to temporarily count Talents from the TO list that are discipline talents for other disciplines, or that are occupying a TO slot from some other Discipline. IE: in the example above, I would allow a Wizard to keep counting "conversation" as one of the talents that fulfills his requirements, so long as he keeps increasing it's rank, and so long as he still has an empty Wizard TO slot for it.
So once again, you only count Wizard Discipline Talents, and other Talents on the Wizard TO list, that are ether occupying a Wizard TO slot, or that you have an empty Wizard TO slot for. Other house rules are certainly possible, some more liberal, some more confining (for example, what was discussed above, or "if it is on your talent option list, it counts). But this one seems like a good balance. But once again, it is a house rule, because the RAW don't really address this.
Statistics:Posted by etherial — Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:36 pm
Statistics:Posted by ChrisDDickey — Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:40 pm
Statistics:Posted by Slimcreeper — Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:27 pm
All of that has to do with how much it costs to raise a Talent Rank. It says that a Talent that is an Option for multiple Disciplines only takes a "slot" in one of them, but does not in any way say that it does not count as a Talent available to multiple disciplines.Page 457 wrote:Talent Options available through multiple Disciplines are handled separately. If a character has learned a Talent Option for a Discipline, he uses the appropriate Legend Point cost for that Discipline to raise the talent based on its Circle—even if it is available as a Talent Option at a lower tier for a new Discipline.
If a character has learned a Talent Option that is a Discipline Talent for a new Discipline, that talent becomes a Discipline Talent as soon as the character qualifies to learn it from the new Discipline. From then on they use the Legend Point cost for the new Discipline. Until then it is treated as a Talent Option for the old Discipline. Once it becomes a Discipline Talent, the Talent Option slot is freed up, and the character may learn a new Talent Option from the old Discipline.
I think we are all agreed that one Talent can "count" as a Discipline Talent for two or more disciplines. I don't see why everybody assumes that one Talent can't "count" as both a Discipline Talent, and "a talent available to his Discipline" for more than one Discipline.Page 453 wrote:Instead. .. a character can know a certain number of talents available to his Discipline at a minimum rank (either Discipline Talents or Talent Options),
Statistics:Posted by ChrisDDickey — Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:34 am
I think the rule quote above is a holdover from the editions when each circle you had two new talents and had to raise a minimum of one to your next circle rank. However with the current edition you have one Discipline Talent, and one Talent Option each circle. And the way this holdover phrase reads, you could use ether for your advancement requirements. It should probably read "and one of those talents must be the discipline talent from his current Circle". But the way it is written it seems to allow the Talent Option choice to be used instead, and the discipline talent to never be taken at all if the player so chooses.FASA Games, on ED4PG452, wrote:and one of those talents must be from his current Circle.
Statistics:Posted by ChrisDDickey — Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:42 am
Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:58 pm
So it's not that the Wizard can take Conversation instead of Tenacious Weave, the Wizard still has to buy Tenacious Weave, they just never have to raise it. The Wizard simply gets to choose every time they Circle which Wizard Talents count toward Circling as a Wizard. But when that Wizard becomes a Third Circle Illusionist, Conversation suddenly stops being a Wizard Talent Option and becomes an Illusionist Discipline Talent. This is mostly a game balance thing for when not using this Optional Rule, preventing you from raising it at the lower Legend Cost of one Discipline but counting it towards the other Discipline, but may be relevant also when the Talent Knack rules come out. It also frees up a Wizard Talent Option slot that can be used for something else.FASA Games, on ED4PG452, wrote:Optional Rule: Instead of being required to know all his Discipline Talents at a rank equal to the next Circle, a character can know a certain number of talents available to his Discipline at a minimum rank (either Discipline Talents or Talent Options), and one of those talents must be from his current Circle. The requirements are summarized on the Optional Advancement Table.
Statistics:Posted by etherial — Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:56 pm
Statistics:Posted by ChrisDDickey — Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:18 pm
Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:17 pm
Statistics:Posted by etherial — Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:00 pm
Statistics:Posted by PiXeL01 — Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:35 pm