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Statistics:Posted by yankeeschic — Mon Jun 02, 2025 10:00 pm
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Statistics:Posted by yankeeschic — Sat May 24, 2025 10:10 pm
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And once again, if this is the first time Justin Payne has seen the items, and John Doe already knows the first three ranks, he can show the first three ranks to Justin Payne before he starts, then the first success Justin Payne achieves will uncover the fourth rank (since Justin already knows the first three).
Statistics:Posted by ChrisDDickey — Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:11 pm
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Justin has rank 4 in item history and John knows already the first three ranks of this thread item.
In my understanding:
If thread weaving determines the max rank of your bond, then your weaponsmith item history rank should determine the maximum thread rank he can uncover.
Or am I mistaken here?
Statistics:Posted by Lursi — Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:57 pm
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etherial wrote: ↑
The reason for the erratum is because this question came up a few months back and it surprised the hell out of me that anybody had a different interpretation than the one I had been playing with since First Edition -- that is, if you have Rank 2 Item History and use it on a thread item, you can learn the Rank 1 and Rank 2 Key Knowledges, even if the item in question doesn't have a specific Key Knowledge listed at Rank 2. (And so you learn, "there's nothing new you need to learn to weave this thread rank.")Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:06 am
I specified Rank 3 because, IME, Rank 3 got you the first 3 Ranks. My recollection from discussion on the old forums is that Rank 3 got you the first 3 Key Knowledges and this erratum confuses me.To put it another, Item History Rank == Maximum Rank you can learn about the item.
It feels strange (to me) that -- for example -- you would only need Rank 4 Item History to learn everything you need to fully weave the (ED1) Crystal Spell Box, which has 7 item ranks, but only 4 listed Key Knowledges. Rank 1 (Name), Rank 3 (Deed), Rank 4 (Mountain Name), Rank 6 (Last Owner).
Nothing else with a rank-based limit functions the same way. Your Rank in Thread Weaving, for example, is the limit for how high your bond with the thread item can go.
After 20+ years of play and discussion, it had never (to my knowledge) come up before, or occurred to me that anybody might see it differently, because that would make it the exception to the general rule.
Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:23 am
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Roll 12-16 (1 success) - Learn Rank 1 including the Test Knowledge
Roll 17-21 (2 successes) - Learn Rank 1 and 2 including the Rank 1 Test Knowledge and that Rank 2 does not have a Test Knowledge/Deed
Roll 22-26 (3 successes) - Learn Rank 1, 2 and 3 including the Rank 1 and 3 Test Knowledge and that Rank 2 does not have a Test Knowledge/Deed
Roll 27+ (4 or more successes) - Learn the same as 3 successes since 'guy' only has Rank 3 in Item History.
The 'guy' can't learn anything above rank 3 until he increases his Item History to 4. Even if he spends multiple weeks using Item History on the Earring.
Statistics:Posted by gortatrien — Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:43 pm
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We'll use, as an example, the Lighting-bold earring (GM page 217); MD:12, 6 Ranks.
Your 'Item History' guy has Rank 3 in Item History
1- The 'guy' will have to study said item at least 1 hour per day for a week, this CANNOT be 'compressed' into 7 hours in a single week
2- The 'guy' will do a Item History test against the MD (12) of the item; thus:
- If he rolls under 12; he's got no information for you; wasted a week for nothing.
- If he rolls between 12 and 23 he learned the FIRST Test Knowledge/deed (i.e. the question) AND where to 'attach the thread' on the Pattern.
- If he rolls between 24 et 35, her learned the first 2 Ranks/deed, thus you can (if you have the 'answer' of the first rank) attach a Thread to the first 2 ranks.
- If he rolls 36 or better, he learned the first 3 Ranks, same as above.
- Since his Rank of Item History is only 3, he cannot learn any more Ranks on this item, even if he rolled 48 or better.
3- If you have already have the knowledge for the first 2 question (i.e. Rank 1 and Rank 3) and/or completed the required deeds, you can thus Weave a thread to the first 3 Ranks of the item, provided, of course, that you have enough LP and enough 'slots' available in your Thread Weaving talent.
Note that:
Upon discovering the first Test Knowledge, the character learns the following:
• The first Test Knowledge (the first ‘question’), which is ALWAYS to find out the name of the item.
o It is important to note that in the case of most non-unique thread items, (that is items referred to in plural form in their description, like the Lightning-Bolt earrings found in the Gamemaster Guide at page 217), the ‘name’ shown in the description is the generic term used for those items in general; they are NOT their actual Name. So, each individual earing would have its own True Name. Thus, you could have a Thread item that is a ‘Lightning Bolt Earring’ which NAME is ‘The Earring of Bob the fancy’.
• The number of Thread Ranks the item has (and therefore its tier)
• The number of Threads that can be woven into it (i.e. how many different people can weave Threads into it)
• Whether the item will require a Deed or not. Deeds are specific actions that need to be done to ‘unlock’ a Thread Rank instead of finding an answer to a question
Also note that:
When a character learns the Test Knowledge (i.e. the ANSWER) of a specific Rank, he also learns the effect (i.e. bonuses) that this Rank confer to the character. The gamemaster is free to determine whether the character learns the exact details at this stage or if he only learns the general type of effect. Obviously, the Gamemaster must provide the full details of the effects once a Thread is actually woven into that Rank
Finally, note that having a book that describe the Test Knowledge (i.e. the questions) would (RAW-wise) provide no help whatsoever to Item History, although, as a GM, I would probably rule that it helps the 'guy' a bit and would reduce the MD a bit; but that's just me.
Statistics:Posted by Bonhumm — Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:35 pm
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I specified Rank 3 because, IME, Rank 3 got you the first 3 Ranks. My recollection from discussion on the old forums is that Rank 3 got you the first 3 Key Knowledges and this erratum confuses me.
Every rank needs to be woven, not just the ones with key knowledges. So item history shows you how/where every rank can be tied to. No, because they designed the pattern and therefore know everything there is to know about the pattern.OK, so the creator needs to Item History the Item they created?
That does not, however, apply to the first wearer of the time, let's say they commissioned it.
They could probably be shown by the creator of the item, though. For a small additional fee
Statistics:Posted by ragbasti — Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:56 am
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ragbasti wrote: ↑
So the best he can do you get the first 3 ranks.
I specified Rank 3 because, IME, Rank 3 got you the first 3 Ranks. My recollection from discussion on the old forums is that Rank 3 got you the first 3 Key Knowledges and this erratum confuses me.Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:27 pm
It does not matter how much perception your world's best Troubadour friend has if he only has rank 3 in the talent. High perception will not make up for his lack of proficiency.
So the best he can do you get the first 3 ranks.
OK, so the creator needs to Item History the Item they created?You need to know exactly why and where this knowledge ties into the pattern of the items. That is what Item History does, it lets you understand the pattern, how it is shaped and what created it.etherial wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:17 amMy friend also recently found the journal of the creator of a curious set of Fernweave Armor Named Poison Ivy. I know its Name, I know who created it, I have access to detailed notes on the use of the poison it creates. Do I have to use Item History? What about the creator of the item. Did they have to use Item History?
Just like you cannot guess the answer and tie a thread, the Research Knowledge does nothing for you if you do not understand the item's pattern enough to know where that knowledge is relevant.
Statistics:Posted by etherial — Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:06 am
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etherial wrote: ↑
My understanding (not really supported by any quote from any book) is that when the guy that did Item History gives you his report on the Item, he has you use your thread sight while he shows you exactly where and how the thread of that rank needs to be attached. (If there are more than one threads possible per item, he would show each separate place). So a journal entry that simply lists the key knowledges and the test knowledges is probably not enough. You also need somebody to show you where the thread goes. This is (also) learned through the Item History test. The creator of the item knows this automatically. And anybody who does Item Histories for that rank can learn this. And anybody who has been shown the secrets by somebody who knows them, can also show somebody else. Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:17 am
My friend also recently found the journal of the creator of a curious set of Fernweave Armor Named Poison Ivy. I know its Name, I know who created it, I have access to detailed notes on the use of the poison it creates. Do I have to use Item History? What about the creator of the item. Did they have to use Item History?Lets say you already had somebody do Item History through rank 3 on an item. You go to another guy to get ranks 4 though 6 done. You would use your thread sight to show (not just tell) him what was learned in the first 3 ranks, so that he can start at rank 4. If you did not show him the first 3 ranks, he would be required to start over at rank 1.
What I don't know is whether it is impossible to write a detailed enough description of the process or not, so that one can read the thread placement rather than be shown it, but my understanding is that it is not commonly done. Somebody with thread sight needs to be shown by somebody with thread sight who also knows the information. Somebody planning on passing their thread items on to an heir has probably shown the heir (or a trusted friend if the heir is not yet initiated). If this knowledge gets lost, in my opinion, the Item History needs to be done again even if both the key knowledges and test knowledges are known. Or at least that is my interpretation.
Statistics:Posted by ChrisDDickey — Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:41 am
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etherial wrote: ↑
It does not matter how much perception your world's best Troubadour friend has if he only has rank 3 in the talent. High perception will not make up for his lack of proficiency.Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:17 am
I'm confused by the last bit of text. I have a sword I suspect to be Purifier. I have given it to friend, the world's greatest Troubador, who has Step 1000 Item History, but only Rank 3. What does he learn after one week of devotion to Purifier?So the best he can do you get the first 3 ranks.
You need to know exactly why and where this knowledge ties into the pattern of the items. That is what Item History does, it lets you understand the pattern, how it is shaped and what created it.etherial wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:17 amMy friend also recently found the journal of the creator of a curious set of Fernweave Armor Named Poison Ivy. I know its Name, I know who created it, I have access to detailed notes on the use of the poison it creates. Do I have to use Item History? What about the creator of the item. Did they have to use Item History?
Just like you cannot guess the answer and tie a thread, the Research Knowledge does nothing for you if you do not understand the item's pattern enough to know where that knowledge is relevant.
Statistics:Posted by ragbasti — Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:27 pm
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2- How many test knowledge (i.e. 'the questions) he learns depends of the number of successes he gets, but since he 'only' have Item History at Rank 3, he can only learn up to a maximum of the first 3 Ranks no matter how many successes he gets.
Upon discovering the first Test Knowledge, the character learns the following:
- The first Test Knowledge (the first ‘question’), which is ALWAYS to find out the name of the item.
(It is important to note that in the case of most non-unique thread items, (that is items referred to in plural form in their description, like the Lightning-Bolt earrings found in the Gamemaster Guide at page 217), the ‘name’ shown in the description is the generic term used for those items in general; they are NOT their actual Name. So, each individual earring would have its own True Name. Thus, you could have a Thread item that is a ‘Lightning Bolt Earring’ which NAME is ‘The Earring of Bob the fancy’.)
- The number of Thread Ranks the item has (and therefore its tier)
- The number of Threads that can be woven into it (i.e. how many different people can weave Threads into it)
- Whether the item will require a Deed or not. Deeds are specific actions that need to be done to ‘unlock’ a Thread Rank instead of finding an answer to a question.
You will now then have to find the Research Knowledge (i.e. the 'answers' to those questions).
It is to be noted that the talent Item History must be use for ALL ranks of a Thread Item, even those ranks that do not have a Key Knowledge and/or deed (player’s handbook: page: 155)
3- You need to Item History the first rank of every Thread Item, even if the 'question' is always to find the name and even if you know the answer. The reason is that you need to find 'where' in the True Pattern of the Item you need to 'weave' the answer.
Statistics:Posted by Bonhumm — Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:24 pm
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FASA Games, on ED4PG155, wrote:Item History
Step: Rank+PER Action: Sustained
Strain: 0 Skill Use: No
The adept learns the history of an enchanted or mundane item. The adept studies the item for a week, carefully examining it for at least one hour each day, then makes an Item History test against the item’s Mystic Defense.
If successful, each success reveals one new Key Knowledge from the item’s history. When used on mundane items (which do not have True Patterns), each success provides the adept with a different piece of information instead of a Key Knowledge. Item History can be used multiple times on the same item, but each test requires another week of study. The adept can learn a maximum number of Key Knowledges from a given item equal to his Item History rank.
Ulm Curvehorn, a troll Weaponsmith, has devoted weeks of study to a weapon known as Kestrel. Previous studies have revealed three Key Knowledges from the weapon’s history. On his latest Item History attempt, Ulm achieves three successes, learning three more Key Knowledges from the axe’s past. However, Ulm’s Item History is only Rank 5, so he can only learn a maximum of five Key Knowledges—the sixth remains out of his reach until he improves his Item History rank, allowing him to make another attempt to learn more of the axe’s secrets.
The talent must be used on all thread item ranks, even if there is not a Key Knowledge or Deed associated with the rank. See Workings of Magic, p.202, for more information on Key Knowledges, and Thread Magic, p.218, for more information on how Key Knowledges are used to weave threads to magic items.
I'm confused by the last bit of text. I have a sword I suspect to be Purifier. I have given it to friend, the world's greatest Troubador, who has Step 1000 Item History, but only Rank 3. What does he learn after one week of devotion to Purifier?Step: Rank+PER Action: Sustained
Strain: 0 Skill Use: No
The adept learns the history of an enchanted or mundane item. The adept studies the item for a week, carefully examining it for at least one hour each day, then makes an Item History test against the item’s Mystic Defense.
If successful, each success reveals one new Key Knowledge from the item’s history. When used on mundane items (which do not have True Patterns), each success provides the adept with a different piece of information instead of a Key Knowledge. Item History can be used multiple times on the same item, but each test requires another week of study. The adept can learn a maximum number of Key Knowledges from a given item equal to his Item History rank.
Ulm Curvehorn, a troll Weaponsmith, has devoted weeks of study to a weapon known as Kestrel. Previous studies have revealed three Key Knowledges from the weapon’s history. On his latest Item History attempt, Ulm achieves three successes, learning three more Key Knowledges from the axe’s past. However, Ulm’s Item History is only Rank 5, so he can only learn a maximum of five Key Knowledges—the sixth remains out of his reach until he improves his Item History rank, allowing him to make another attempt to learn more of the axe’s secrets.
The talent must be used on all thread item ranks, even if there is not a Key Knowledge or Deed associated with the rank. See Workings of Magic, p.202, for more information on Key Knowledges, and Thread Magic, p.218, for more information on how Key Knowledges are used to weave threads to magic items.
My friend also recently found the journal of the creator of a curious set of Fernweave Armor Named Poison Ivy. I know its Name, I know who created it, I have access to detailed notes on the use of the poison it creates. Do I have to use Item History? What about the creator of the item. Did they have to use Item History?
Statistics:Posted by etherial — Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:17 am
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