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Statistics:Posted by yankeeschic — Sun Jun 01, 2025 6:00 am
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Statistics:Posted by yankeeschic — Fri May 23, 2025 8:32 am
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I like the clean cut of Spell, Talent, Power.
To further add to the ideas already presented:
Powers can then be further broken down by source (Horror, Passion) and whether innate (Horrors, Passions, creatures) or granted (Questors, Horror Cultists [make this a thing, please!]).Spells: ad hoc or temporary Patterns created through Threadweaving and Spellcasting
Talents: magical Patterns that are trained over and over again to allow Adepts to perform magical feats
Powers: innate or granted Patterns giving creatures, Horrors, Passions, etc., ability to perform magical feats, with no training required to learn them (though they may need training to get better)
Statistics:Posted by Tattered Rags — Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:01 pm
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Dougansf wrote: ↑
That's why I'd suggested that extra bit to combine it all together. In my concept, we'd end up with something like this:Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:59 pm
The difference in nomenclature is precisely why I had a doubt about this in the first place.That establishes the nomenclature but then actually explains how they're different.Magical abilities generally fall into three categories: Spells, Talents, and Powers. Dispel Magic can be used to cancel ongoing effects from Spells and Talents, regardless of who or what is being affected. Suppress Curse can be used to cancel ongoing effects from Powers (or maybe just Horror Powers) when the target of the effect is different than the source (e.g., can't cancel a Power that a Horror uses to buff itself). Unless otherwise noted:
- Spells are the results of successful Spellcasting tests or the result of Thread Item abilities.
- Discipline-derived abilities are Talents.
- Passion-derived (e.g., for Questors) are Powers.
This raises an interesting question - if a Questor of a Mad Passion used a non-Talent ability (let's just call it a Power) with an ongoing negative effect on someone, could that ability be canceled with Suppress Curse? And that's only the "evil effecting good" side. Then there's the "good effecting evil" side. Lochust may grant some abilities/Powers to punish/curse slavers, for example. If you're an Adept slaver, would Suppress Curse be applicable here?
Statistics:Posted by The Undying — Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:14 am
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The Undying wrote: ↑
The difference in nomenclature is precisely why I had a doubt about this in the first place.Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:13 pm
Regardless of where things fall, it'd be nice to have a simple, clean nomenclature for this stuff. Probably just: Spells, Talents, Powers. Things that are "Talent-like" (same means and mechanisms) but not Talents are Powers. Dispel Magic works on Spells and Talents but not Powers. I believe Horror 'abilities' are already called Powers. When the time comes for Questors, you can just use the appropriate term for which direction you decide.I might expect keeping Horror Powers separate in some fashion might be key for any future Horror Stalker discipline that may come down the pipe.
Statistics:Posted by Dougansf — Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:59 pm
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Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:38 pm
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Which leaves open the possibility that Questor powers also cannot be dispelled. If that is the case, it provides a balance for Questor powers if they are weaker than comparable Talents and spells.
I'm willing to accept Questor powers being akin to creature or Horror powers.
Statistics:Posted by Tattered Rags — Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:03 pm
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Dougansf wrote: ↑
My gut says probably, but we haven't gotten to the point of developing specific powers yet, and deciding if Dispel Magic should apply.Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:26 am
Any answer to my original question about Powers being affected by Dispel Magic?Note: There has been some scaling back of Dispel Magic in ED4 compared to earlier versions. It affects spells and talents, but not other magical effects that are not spells or talents. So it can't dispel creature or Horror powers, for instance, which at least some versions of the spell could.
Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:09 pm
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Statistics:Posted by RazanMG — Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:26 am
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Mataxes wrote: ↑
Makes sense to me. I imagine it would also be tough to have a budding religion if only a select few types of people could choose to be your empowered followers. Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:20 am
Non-adepts can absolutely be questors. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, the majority of questors are not adepts.
Any answer to my original question about Powers being affected by Dispel Magic?
Statistics:Posted by Dougansf — Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:26 am
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This is one of the things that will be addressed in more depth in the upcoming book, but here's some thoughts, mainly from a setting perspective.
Following a Discipline is hard it requires singular focus on an mode of thought that, when internalized, allows an individual to tap into and shape the world's ambient magical energy. As hard as it is to be an adept, it is even harder to follow multiple Disciplines, since you need to balance two or more of these devoted philosophies.
Questors require a similar degree of focus, devoting themselves to particular ideals and behaviors, much like an adept. The main difference is that while an adept's powers derive from their own understanding, and pursuit of, a particular philosophy, questors are rewarded by an external force (the Passion).
So, just like it should be hard to follow multiple Disciplines, it should be hard to follow a Discipline and be a questor. There are, no doubt, some combinations that are easier to manage than others, but it requires devotion and energy. It shouldn't be something you take on lightly.
Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:20 am
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PiXeL01 wrote: ↑
I cannot see why they should be, if they are induced with the powers by the Passions as reward for their servitude
There are a number of people who are "initiated" into the Order, but not necessary a Questor. And many of these entries have no stats, and may or may not imply that they are Adepts.Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:55 pm
Aren't some of the Questors in Ardanyan's Revenge non-adepts? I cannot see why they should be, if they are induced with the powers by the Passions as reward for their servitude
That said, I agree. I think non-Adepts should be able to be Questors.
Statistics:Posted by Dougansf — Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:06 am
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Statistics:Posted by PiXeL01 — Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:55 pm
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