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Statistics:Posted by yankeeschic — Mon Jun 02, 2025 4:19 pm
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Statistics:Posted by yankeeschic — Sat May 24, 2025 6:41 pm
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I solved my problem with feeling useless on the lower circles in combat. We fought a lesser horror and my magic kept bouncing off it, and finally my strength 8 Nethermancer picked up a knife and simply stabbed it, and due to open ended rolls on both hit and damage... kaSPLAT.
I then spent some LP learning melee weapons as a skill, picked up a sword, and voila. With step 7 dexterity and 1 melee skill, I can go aggressive and reach step 11 to hit, and step 11 damage, which is better than my Spirit Dart. We found a Desperate Blow charm which I claimed, and now I can help in combat.
Turns out the solution for low level magic users in ED is the same as in DnD.
Statistics:Posted by Lamoron — Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:41 am
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Statistics:Posted by Sharkforce — Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:53 pm
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Sharkforce wrote: ↑
Eh, yeah, you're right. Maybe I'll rerun the numbers today and put up a better guess.Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:39 am
astral strain would also be significant in that it would increase the chance of hitting, so it should add more than just the chance of getting an extra success.Statistics:Posted by Tattered Rags — Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:03 am
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Sharkforce wrote: ↑
No, I did not.Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:29 am
did you factor in spellcasting talent knacks for the astral spear? i am assuming it wouldn't do a *huge* amount, but it should help somewhat...Astral Strain and Pattern Stress are the only ones that would make a difference.
Pattern Stress effectively negates the bonus that SD gives. I'd guess it would up the damage range to 3-7ish for AS. About on par with SD.
Astral Strain would shift the chances for extra damage. Too hard for me to figure out without returning probabilities and redoing my spreadsheet. Don't want to do that, though. I *think* it wouldn't be more than 1 damage per round, though. If even that.
Statistics:Posted by Tattered Rags — Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:08 am
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Tattered Rags wrote: ↑
Anydice.com link:
https://anydice.com/program/146e9
Result against a Cadaver Man
SD averages 7.6 damage a round (not sure I did the math right, but 6.31 in round 1 and 8.31 in round 2, with a 65% chance of success in round 1 causing a -2 to MA)
AS averages about 2 to 5 per round, depending on a number of factors (single target vs. extra target, all threads in 1 round vs. over 2 rounds, extra successes, etc.), but you have a better chance of a really big hit in 1 round
Analysis wasn't perfect, but the differences are great enough that I'm confident in the direction if not the specific numbers.
did you factor in spellcasting talent knacks for the astral spear? i am assuming it wouldn't do a *huge* amount, but it should help somewhat...Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:20 pm
I did some number crunching and have come to the conclusion that Spirit Darts is better than Astral Spear. There are the use cases where the enemy has high mystic armor (and you need to beat it), has no MA (so the benefit of Spirit Darts goes away), or you really want to cause a wound. Generally, though, Spirit Darts does more damage per round. I think. The analysis is a bit complex, so I may have oversimplified. And I'm not sharing the intermediate steps because they're a mess.Anydice.com link:
https://anydice.com/program/146e9
Result against a Cadaver Man
SD averages 7.6 damage a round (not sure I did the math right, but 6.31 in round 1 and 8.31 in round 2, with a 65% chance of success in round 1 causing a -2 to MA)
AS averages about 2 to 5 per round, depending on a number of factors (single target vs. extra target, all threads in 1 round vs. over 2 rounds, extra successes, etc.), but you have a better chance of a really big hit in 1 round
Analysis wasn't perfect, but the differences are great enough that I'm confident in the direction if not the specific numbers.
Statistics:Posted by Sharkforce — Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:29 am
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Anydice.com link:
https://anydice.com/program/146e9
Result against a Cadaver Man
SD averages 7.6 damage a round (not sure I did the math right, but 6.31 in round 1 and 8.31 in round 2, with a 65% chance of success in round 1 causing a -2 to MA)
AS averages about 2 to 5 per round, depending on a number of factors (single target vs. extra target, all threads in 1 round vs. over 2 rounds, extra successes, etc.), but you have a better chance of a really big hit in 1 round
Analysis wasn't perfect, but the differences are great enough that I'm confident in the direction if not the specific numbers.
Statistics:Posted by Tattered Rags — Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:20 pm
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Statistics:Posted by Sharkforce — Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:46 pm
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Tattered Rags wrote:Does the wizard feel the same as you in combat, though?
I am the Wizard in question. I don't feel overly useless in combat - my magic is good at hitting but low on damage, while my melee attacks are high on damage but have trouble landing. It certainly helps that Mind Dagger yields damage on successes while debuffing PD, allowing me to follow up in melee. Who said battlemages were'nt an Earthdawn thing?Lamoron wrote:I don't think so. He has built his character to be able to engage in melee, but most importantly a Mind Dagger has increased damage with success, and it debuffs Physical Defense on top of the better damage, so it allows the rest of the team to be very effective.
That being said, I certainly agree that spellcasters in general excel at buffs and utility moreso than pure destruction.
It should be noted for reference that the reason why you (and I as well) ended up being more successful in melee was mostly determined by the fact that the enemy had twice as high a MD versus PD. In a reversed scenario, I doubt either of us would resort to Aggressive Attacks for damageLamoron wrote:In our last fight I ended up taking out a Dagger and going aggressive, despite not having any melee skill, and then doing more damage in one hit than my Spirit Darts had done over five rounds [...]
Statistics:Posted by JetBlackJoe — Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:13 pm
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LCoO is a very useful in specific circumstances. If you are facing off with horror contructs all the better. Note that you can stand in place and cast the spell each round essentially creating an impenetrable "last stand" fortress, where your warriors can split movement to get into melee with monsters wise enough to stand on the ege of the circle, hit them hard and return to safety. This works even better in narrow corridors or doorways.
Statistics:Posted by Avanti — Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:13 pm
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Lamoron wrote: ↑
Well, if you end up melee anyway, may as well use Spirit Grip and outclass the Mind Dagger (or double up with it for a massive -4 to PD), though I think your intent I'd to stay at range.Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:05 pm
In our last fight I ended up taking out a Dagger and going offensive, despite not having any melee skill, and then doing more damage in one hit than my Spirit Darts had done over five rounds, simply because there's two opportunities for exploding dice when the hits can add to damage as well.At Circle 3/4, is your Nethermancy decently high? Think you could hit 2 threads in 1 round? With karma? May want to consider tossing Astral Spear at 2 targets every other round or every three rounds. Decent damage, extra successes increase it, and if you have to threadweave anyway, drop an extra thread for a DN of 10. Even if you don't hit it that first round, you're very likely to get it the next and cast every three rounds. Not ideal, but it's decent damage.
Throw your step numbers into Anydice and see how an extra-threaded Astral Spear stacks against just spamming Spirit Darts.
Statistics:Posted by Tattered Rags — Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:18 pm
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Tattered Rags wrote: ↑
I don't think so. He has built his character to be able to engage in melee, but most importantly a Mind Dagger has increased damage with success, and it debuffs Physical Defense on top of the better damage, so it allows the rest of the team to be very effective.Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:05 pm
Does the wizard feel the same as you in combat, though?In our last fight I ended up taking out a Dagger and going aggressive, despite not having any melee skill, and then doing more damage in one hit than my Spirit Darts had done over five rounds, simply because there are two opportunities for exploding dice when the hits can add to damage as well, and I can simply chose to get +3 to hit and damage, since my entire defence is Avoid Blow and not my actual Physical Defence.
Dexterity step 7, +3 aggressive = Step 10 to hit, which is one lower than my Nethermancy.
Strength step 4, +3 aggressive, +2 Dagger = Step 9 to damage, which is the same as my Spirit Dart.
So with zero points invested of any kind, I'm better in melee than at magic, because the Wizard debuffs Physical Defense, and because I can get additional success to damage. That's a bit silly
Statistics:Posted by Lamoron — Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:05 pm
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