taunt and minimum damage optional rule

[galafrone]

Does taunt affects the minimum damage doable with a good (or better) hit under the minimum damage optional rule ?
say i have a tipical 11 damage step, but i am under a -3 taunt, i am rolling an 8 damage step
if i do a good result, the minimum is 8 or still 11 (so unaffected by the taunt ?)
the minimum damage rule states that the value is never AUGMENTED by spells/talents/enchants but nothing about the eventual reduction.

any taker ?

[ragbasti]

I think this is one of those cases which are not covered by the rules exactly.
I would personally deduct the 3 Steps when applying the Minimum Damage rule, however other GMs might see that diferently.

[arma]

Well, the purpose is to ensure doing damage on good rolls, so penalizing it would go counter to the purpose of the rule...
...choosing to use the rule, you have answered your own question already.

In any case, things to consider:
- A general penalty would still count in that it applied to the attack test, and you have hit besides suffering the penalty.
- The rule uses a "special number" scenario where you define the actual number of minimum damage points. It doesn't use the step of the Damage Test or anything, it just instructs you to take "weapon Step + STR Step" and these don't normally change in the short run. You could actually write the minimum damage down next to the weapon and it wouldn't change unless your STR changes or you'd forge the weapon, etc..
- if you get no bonuses, it's only fair to not get penalties

[galafrone]

it's a valid argument.
is the forging (as a pre-enchanting step) valued as "magic/talent" etc, or is just the weapon more efficient and so is counted in the minimum ?

[arma]

You'd count it in, it directly increases the "Damage Step" characteristic of the weapon. Same for the rank-Effects of threaded weapons. E.g. a broadsword forged once actually is "Damage Step 6" and not "Damage Step 5 with a +1 bonus" (if you look at the threaded weapons, you'll also notice they actually say "this now _is_ Damage Step X" and not "add another +X to damage" -- the result is the same in most cases, except for optional rules such as this, and maybe some abilities targeting weapons that are available in Warden or Master Levels, and forging itself).

[galafrone]

Hi again, and sorry to bother again on this topic.

If i use the aggressive attack option (or the manouver talent bonus in case of a successful manouver use), the + to the attack are in place for the effects of the minimum damage rule ?

the aggressive attack options gives a + 3 to damage tests
Also the same thing for the Maneuver Bonus that was executed well

the rules specify that no augmentations can come from talents (and maneuver is a talent, so should be a NO on this one, as it should be a no for a crushing blow etc.etc)
but from the aggressive attack option i dont know.. i am tempted to say yes, the Minimum Damage should get the +3 buff.

[arma]

No, these don't count.

As per above: the optional rule instructs you to look at the Damage _Step_ (defined as weapon Step + STR Step) of the weapon and take that as a base for the minimum damage. A bonus to the Damage _Test_ is something else.

Example:

Your STR is 6.
Your weapon Damage Step is 8 (broadsword, forged 3 times).
-> Your base Damage Step for the optional rule is 14 (6+8).
-> -> You always do 14 damage on a Good Attack Test Result regardless of the result of the Damage Test.
(You can simply put this down on your character sheet, it won't change unless your STR changes or your weapon changes.)

Now you use Aggressive Attack. This gives you +3 to the Damage Test. But not the Damage Step. It will increase your step for the Damage Test by 3 if you chose the option to apply bonuses as step bonuses, but this is not your Damage Step in regards to the optional rule. It is the step used for the Damage Test, but not your Damage Step.
You either roll step 17 (apply bonus as step bonus) or roll step 14 and add 3 (apply bonus to the result). Regardless of what you do, if you use the optional rule, any result below 14 will be brought up to 14, bot no other value.

Another way of looking at it, leaving minimum damage aside for a moment:
If you go unarmed, your STR is essentially your Damage Step. Aggressive Attack gives a +3 to the Damage Test. But it doesn't increase your STR (for example to give you a higher carrying capacity in a round where you go aggressive). Tests are about dice rolled and bonuses added. But what happens during tests doesn't influence any of the stats these tests are based on. It's a one-way street. Stats influence tests, but _test_ bonuses don't influence stats. The weapon minimum damage is a stat.

[galafrone]

thanks arma