What's happening with the other discipines?

[Slimcreeper]

Were I to design a Shaman from scratch, she would have a spell set that was slow-acting and utility focused, but having powerful non-combat applications, such as infecting a crowd with a possession of spirits that forced them all to speak in tongues. 25, 50 people all speaking in coherent but unintelligible languages. A house deconstituting (made-up word) into its separate parts and raw materials (the timbers reverting to tree branches, bricks reverting to unfired mud, the whole thing collapsing on itself in a tangle of raw materials. A mouse changing into a horse. Miracles, in short. In combat, the Shaman might have bound spirits fight or possess aspects of the environment. She might even be a second-line fighter. I just don't imagine a shaman as blasting with spells. I imagine a wise woman leading her people.

(or man, but I chose female for the previous paragraph and I'm sticking to it.)

[Spader]

[Panda]

The role and nature of specializations have not yet been locked down either. Which is why I have been keeping away from the topic which would be a perfect fit in previous editions. Messenger should also be on the list.

It is worth mentioning I am not a big fan of racial disciplines in general, unless there is something fundamental which keeps other races from learning it (e.g. Windmaster). For example, orks may have the biggest bone to pick about slavery, but they are hardly the only people who may be strongly motivated to do something about it. This is leaving aside the discussion whether it is appropriate for there to be a metaphysical construct based around bringing an end to a mortal practice. Purifiers are in a similar situation. Certainly obsidimen enjoy a unique bond with the earth, but implying the expression of the discipline is solely within their understanding does a disservice to the dedication required in becoming an adept in the first place. These are not points about how common human Purifiers may be, but there should be room for human Purifiers. Which is all a very verbose way of saying I have no objection to a practical restriction, but do object to a philosophical restriction.

[sirserafin]

[Utsukushi]

I suspect one problem is that the side-Disciplines were never really properly even brought up to Third Edition. I mean, they had their writeups, but mechanically, in the Edition that made the ADM core.. they weren't given Talent Options.

Most of them do work well as sub-Disciplines, though, and could really be done very neatly just by offering Race-specific Talent Options. (Eg., only a T'skrang Swordmaster can learn Talents that make use of their tail. Because Human Swordmasters have tried, and they just looked silly.) Or even tweaks more on line with the specialized Disciplines from back in Adept's Way (like Blademasters, to stick with the Swordmaster basis.) Liberators are one of my favorites in principal, but... they'd need to be rewritten so that they can work in a party that isn't specifically freeing slaves all the time. Some of the others (like Horror Stalker and Purifier) have a similar kind of focus, but none of them are so boxed in, both in their purpose and Talents, as to be completely not functional if the whole game isn't centered on them all the time.

SO with you about Shamans! They never interested me at all because they just didn't bring anything new to the table -- they just wore their Matrices on the outside.

Totally looking forward to time to really talk about Questors -- and I do hope Lightbringers, and other major Group Patterns like them, will be addressed in that book. It seems like the right place for it, even if they're not technically Passion-based. Unless there's room for it in the Gamemaster's Guide or Companion, of course; it would totally fit in either of those.

[Panda]

The design space around Specializations isn't so easy to navigate. Previously, switching out discipline talents meant you would have something different on which to spend Karma. Now this distinction has gone away. It would still represent changing the "core curriculum" of a discipline, but with talent options this isn't a major concern. Including a number of Specializations which change out the discipline talents for various other configurations leads to a scenario where the distinction between discipline talent and talent option becomes academic - why not just have a pool of talents to built your character from? This isn't a bad idea, but it was decided to go with more structure for a number of reasons.

Indicating the only difference between a Bladesman and a Swordmaster is their Defense Bonus is more than a little lackluster. Essentially, it should be fairly straightforward to build a specialist (by the previous stick which measured such things) by selecting the appropriate talent options. The existence of the various specialties was kept in mind when putting together the talents available to each discipline. To make those options interesting and meaningful, they need a little something more. At least, in my opinion.

Designing racial talents for specializations is a problematic. Additional mechanics to support a particular racial ability can easily allow said race to start overshadowing everyone else in that particular area. The Taildancer (k'stulaami, of course) was a particularly egregious example of this, though a simple t'skrang Warrior wasn't far behind. A good part of the reason behind this is not every race would be able to take full advantage of the design space. Offering some minor, if interesting, abilities through Knacks is currently one of the many, many options on the table. Though I wouldn't necessarily expect anything along those lines in the Companion; as popular as a Knack for t'skrang Swordmasters would be, I would rather use the space for something applicable to all Swordmasters and save the design for a point when each race gets something unique and fun.

Regarding Liberators, there has often be a simple question plaguing me with regard to justifying their existence in the setting: How are they fundamentally different from a Questor of Lochost?

[kosmit]

[Panda]

Talents gained from a discipline (as specifically distinct from those gained through threads and Versatility) can have Karma spent on them.

[kosmit]

So there is no mechanical difference between optional and discipline talents now? One more question: What about Strain cost in talents used mostly during downtime?

[Panda]

I cannot think of any talents which maintained irrelevant Strain costs. Those were removed in the very beginning of development.