Preview #5 - Spells

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Preview #5 - Spells

Postby Mataxes » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:24 pm

Newest developer blog post. Talking about spells.

http://www.fasagames.com/blog/?post_id= ... ----spells
Josh Harrison --
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Re: Preview #5 - Spells

Postby Telarus_KSC » Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:44 pm

Sweet! I like the spirit effect, especially due to thematic and mechanical repercussions. ;)

This is very ambiguous: "Anyone engaging the target in close combat will automatically takes Effect test damage (Physical Armor protects) and can cause the surrounding area to catch fire."

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Re: Preview #5 - Spells

Postby Panda » Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:12 pm

Greetings,

Very glad to hear that you liked it. That is the rough cut that still needs cleaning up. The portion that you underlined was left deliberately ambiguous at this time so it can be in the realm of GM discretion and how "frisky" the spirit/elementals is feeling.

Apologies for the brevity - I'm currently replying from my phone waiting for Welcome to Night Vale.
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Re: Preview #5 - Spells

Postby shiinx » Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:48 am

In the blog post you stated that some spells overlap thematically with another discipline and that you will try to tighten things up. Does this include shifting spells between spellcasting disciplines so that they are a better fit, or just tagging additional effects to existing spells?

A very unique and cool feature about the ED magic system are spellthreads. Unfortunately, they are also often the cause for woes at the (our) gametable, as the caster has to sit still for many rounds and weave his threads before doing anything with them. Is this also something you are looking into?
With the new success level system, you could say that each -or every other- success level yields one thread. In addition, a mechanic to alter the effects by increasing/decreasing the number of threads would be interesting to see. Finally, a mechanic to be able to cast the spell in the same round as you weave the threads, if you exceed your weaving test by a lot (let's see 3 threads required, you roll 6 successes) might be nice.

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Re: Preview #5 - Spells

Postby Panda » Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:57 am

As a preface: I cannot speak for Josh (who penned the blog post) and there are elements of the design process that I am not completely at the liberty to discuss.

I'm looking at every spell and seeing how they fit in the overall scheme (there may be a more detailed discussion on what exactly that means later). Which is to say that I am noting spells that don't fit in the themes for a given Discipline. Which could mean that it steps on the toes of a different Discipline too much, or it simply isn't something they should be doing in the first place. Wizard has the dubious honor of being the most egregious offender. There isn't an answer do what exactly will be done with a spell - it depends on all of the factors. I have a few remedies to apply, the most basic being reworking the description a little to make it more thematic. I cannot say if a spell will end up in a different Discipline entirely, cut, or reworked more thoroughly at this time. My preference is to find a way for the spell to fit, but I (this is not me speaking for anyone but me) prefer each Discipline to have stronger themes and will recommend cuts if that is the best way to get there. That is a somewhat long answer to what seems like a simple question.

Weaving additional threads based on Successes was specifically discussed last year and is still on the table. I know what I would like it to look like in its final form, which is one that supports engaging with the versatility offered by the Extra Thread mechanic, but I cannot speak to what it will be in the end. It is highly unlikely that there will be an allowance to weave a thread and cast in the same turn. All of the spells are being written under the premise that you cannot cast a 2+ thread spell in a single turn. Threads represent a timing mechanic which is subtle at times, but important to balance out the versatility that magicians bring to the table. The number of threads that a spell has is being closely evaluated with that in mind.

A vague example: A spell that requires to take three turns to cast a spell isn't incredibly exciting. My goal would be to turn that into a 1 or 2 thread spell with reduced effectiveness, then use the Extra Thread mechanic to allow it to be brought back up to somewhere around the old effectiveness for those who wanted the extra power.

Hopefully that is helpful. Apologies for not offering anything definitive or specific, but that is a realm I don't want to venture into without prior approval from the powers that be.
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Re: Preview #5 - Spells

Postby shiinx » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:22 am

The long answer is much appreciated, Panda. All of this sounds very exciting- naturally depending on how it will be in the end. I am no strong advocate of weaving and casting in the same turn, I just thought to bring it up as an additional idea, since it seemed to fit reasonably with the thread mechanic. I very much like the Extra Thread mechanic. You might even consider going to zero threads for some spells - e.g. combining Astral Darts and Astral Spear into one spell. The flavour description then explains that the projectile grows larger with added threads.

From your response I gathered that you are one of the people working on the fourth edition. Previously, I thought you were just another fan providing your own thoughts on the development. It might be useful to clarify this by a special name color as for Mataxas.

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Re: Preview #5 - Spells

Postby Panda » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:43 am

There are indeed still 0 thread spells and some spells been added to that category. Early on I had considered doing exactly what you describe with Astral Dart and Astral Spear. At this time (which is, again, not a promise on the final product in any way), I have gone in a direction that allows for more design space to explore and maintained them as distinct spells. There aren't many combat spells that just do damage as of right now.

You are correct, I was brought aboard to work on Fourth Edition last year. I was (and still am to a degree) keeping a low profile on my involvement until it was revealed in the Q&A on Monday. Navigating the line on how much information is too much to share can be tricky (for me), and I do not want to steal any of Josh's (Mataxes) thunder for his weekly blog posts. His red color is because he is a site moderator, which I am not and am not petitioning for that to change.

Hopefully that offers some more clarity. I'm very happy to hear that you like what you are seeing so far.
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Re: Preview #5 - Spells

Postby kosmit » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:27 am

WOW, I like the idea of spell getting stronger with more threads weaved into it! :D

It would greatly improve battles and caster can choose if he wants to shoot and forget with a great spell weaved during couple rounds or to shoot every round with weaker version of the spell.

I like those changes. More threads = more enemies/more damage/longer duration, same spell but with no time to focus = attack one enemy/shorter duration/illusion easier to Disbelief etc. :D
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Re: Preview #5 - Spells

Postby Stormcrow » Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:28 pm

I like this thematic division and also the ability to overpower a spell (very Shadowrun-esque) but I have 3 questions (actually 3 sets of questions within specific themes) for you about spells in this new edition.

1. I thought it was interesting to see that you placed a limit of 1 instance of this spell active at one time. Is this a new mechanic for specific spells, or just an add on rule for some of them? Will it replace the more general rule that you can have rank instances of a spell active at one time? Final, what about the concentration mechanic, is that still in or is this a way to replace it?

2. I know it is probably impossible due to the diversity of the spells in ED but have you found a way to better balance them against each other and assign circles? Do you think that you will be able to eventually develop a spell design system based on this system if so?

3. Are you going to give a lot of focus to Illusion magic? I think this is probably the most difficult of all the magic types to get a grip of as it doesn't work in the same way as in other systems. It doesn't help that a lot of the rules are scattered through the books. I don't think there is enough clarity in the system in general and would like to see it overhauled and made more accessible on a first reading. For example, I think it would be helpful to know what senses are affected in the individual spell descriptions, and have general rules for what happens when one of these senses are blocked. Can you close your eyes and walk through an illusory wall? Why not have the target sensing/ disbelief target numbers in the spell description so we don't have to keep looking them up? What happens when they are disbelieved? Do they disappear and if so is it just for the disbeliever. If they don't, how does disbelieving affect the viewer? Similarly with tactile illusions, can they still be felt after disbelieved? I personally have answers to a lot of these questions now but it took a long time to get there. Anyway, back to my original point. I think illusion magic does not get enough attention as it has it's own separate mechanics and was wondering if that was a priority.

Edited because my post was riddled with punctuation and grammatical mistakes oops :)

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Re: Preview #5 - Spells

Postby Slimcreeper » Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:06 pm

This is good stuff. If I were to add my 2-cents . . . well I suppose I will! I'd like to see standardized spell thread DNs; I'd like to see durations and ranges simplified. It doesn't affect my play much if a spell lasts 4 rounds and then 2 circles later it is 6 rounds. I'd much rather have it last 5 minutes, or a quarter of an hour, or a day. Maybe weaving an additional thread could get you an additional time unit (an extra 5 minutes, quarter or an hour, or day). Range simplified to close, short, medium, long and extreme. Same for missile weapons, for that matter. It would fit with my style of play better. Of course, I may well in a teeny, tiny minority.


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