Open Game vs Closed Game

Discussion on game mastering Earthdawn. May contain spoilers; caution is recommended!
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Harlequin
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Open Game vs Closed Game

Postby Harlequin » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:22 pm

When you guys are hosting your sessions, do you usually play an open game where every players can see the results of the die rolls or do you prefer using a closed game, where you roll behind a GM screen?

Would you also care to elaborate why you choose this method?

- H -

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slayride
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Re: Open Game vs Closed Game

Postby slayride » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:12 pm

I've done both. I don't feel like fiddling with the screen lately, so mostly open die rolls. But when rolling in front there is no way to fudge rolls. The dice rolls are the results and the chips fall where they may.

The rationale to use a screen is to cheat. The type of cheating is usually both for or against the players. This method allows you to fudge die rolls and obfuscate the results as you choose.

In the ten year campaign I rolled in front of them for a few sessions and they begged me to go back to using a screen. My rolls are brutal and the D20s came up 20 often. Seeing those roll ups had them scared so they didn't want to see the dice anymore in the D4-D20 classic system.

Its actually a lot easier to roll in front in ED3's dice since even a roll up on a D12 is not as devastating as one on the D20. Its also in part psychological I think. The D20 roll up is a scary thing in Earthdawn so seeing things like 104 damage on 14/D20+D4 can scare people when the Game Master is wielding that kind of potential devastating power. The D12 just doesn't have the same psychological scare power even on a roll up.

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Re: Open Game vs Closed Game

Postby Flowswithdrek » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:33 pm

I roll behind the screen, but only because the screen is to large, reaching around it to roll would be a pain. I rarely fudge the dice unless I really, really need to and if I roll an epic roll, I often lift the screen, just to prove how evil my dice are. My recent shadowrun game used open dice rolling, the players couldn't bear to watch lol.

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Re: Open Game vs Closed Game

Postby Anunnaki » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:52 pm

I roll behind the screen, but mainly for reasons of hidden rolls. It's kinda obvious that you are making hidden rolls when you normally roll openly...

That said, I'm also one of those GMs who makes rolls and "notes things down" for no apparent (to the players) reason. "Is it something we should be afraid of?" Similarly, I ask for various tests from the players from time to time (Perception Tests or various Skill Tests). You have to keep the players guessing! Saying that, you have to show that you aren't bluffing also or the impact can be lost.

Like Slayride, I used to roll openly, but the odd brutal roll was enough to scare my players. To be fair, they were whining that I was fudging the rolls too much and didn't feel challenged (I rarely fudge rolls, FYI), so they wanted me to openly roll to keep things, well, open. I think it took two game sessions and two near total-party-kills for them to recant. :twisted:

In my own experience, most RPGs require a degree of result manipulation by the GM, and it's simply easier to do that behind a screen of some kind. Just don't be afraid to "let the dice roll as they will" if your players think that's what they prefer. :)

Take kaer, James

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Kasbak
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Re: Open Game vs Closed Game

Postby Kasbak » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:12 pm

For the vast majority, I roll behind the screen for reasons all stated, though most important for me is hidden rolls. Every once in a while I'll do an open roll or tell the players the result. This is generally for something pivitol and high tension, though usually not for anything in combat.

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Re: Open Game vs Closed Game

Postby zayven » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:42 pm

I've generally found that players enjoy the tension that comes from rolling the dice out in the open. Even making random rolls in the open can leave them guessing because they generally don't know what target number you were aiming for or whether a high roll is good or bad. It's worth mentioning, however, that I don't like using screens. It just puts too much distance between me and the players. I tend to be a bit over the top with NPC characterizations too, though, so I usually ended up knocking the screen over anyway.

There were a few times that I had players roll things like Perception tests ten or fifteen times and record the results. When the occasion for such a test came up, I just looked down at the next number on the list and used that as the result. It seemed like it would be a good way to keep from breaking the illusion of the game narrative, but it had an odd effect of pulling them out of the experience because they felt like their character wasn't actually doing anything since the player wasn't physically rolling the dice in that moment.

I'm kind of on the other side of the "GM as manipulator" spectrum and try to keep myself as detached from the situation as possible. Obviously this is a question of style and preference, but I find that the more involved I get, the more players start to think about how they should approach situations as people playing a game rather than as characters in the situation. At least, this is my perception of their response. I'm always worried that players will feel like I'm railroading them because that's one thing that I really dislike as a player.

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Re: Open Game vs Closed Game

Postby ukhata » Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:04 am

We use the way of ED that basicly says "ED is a scary scary world. peopel die often" as such we roll open. we have sometimes seen characters die horribly from a few explodes. and that makes it awesome. we will continue to roll open cuz people die.

Ukhata

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Re: Open Game vs Closed Game

Postby ArcadianRefugee » Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:32 pm

My group is still "young" so I do my rolls behind the screen (which, more often than not, belongs to my laptop). Mostly, because the story is the point for us. I'm not afraid to let the characters get their butts whooped -- or the bad guys theirs, for that matter -- if it'll enhance the story.

Best to date: party was fighting a pair of insane obsidimen (Journey to Lang/) and pretty much nickle-and-diming both of them while managing to avoid their blows in turn. That is, until, one of the obsidimen managed to land a blow to the Weaponsmith and do 52 points. "Luckily", they had access to a Last Chance salve.

To this day, every time they encounter an obsidiman, the player makes reference to the time his dwarf had his neck broken one.

But I don't like to perma-kill PCs early on unless it's really dramatic; to them, it's a new system (one I absolutely love) and I don't want to turn them away from it. Once they've gained some better footing in the systems, yeah, I'll let the chips (such as they are) fall where they may. We're doing Mists of Betrayal now and I fully expect someone to die, even if it is the NPC Archer they've been palling around with.

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Re: Open Game vs Closed Game

Postby Telarus_KSC » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:50 pm

I have gone to rolling in the open. I give new PCs "limited plot immunity", by informing the party before the session of my house-rules. That means that going over your Death rating won't necessarily kill you, but it does mean you've lost all plot immunity (as a GM, the first two things I go for are losing body parts or family members). I also tend to give my players strong indications on if a scene is going to be a lethal risk or not, even to the point that I ask a player if they're risking their life on that action (before Initiative is first rolled, usually).

Another thing: Not all my encounters are a fight to the death. Most things will get the hell outta there after taking a wound or two in Damage, or getting to within 1 Wound Threshold of their KO rating. (And yes, that counts as a Defeat for Legend purposes.... get that.. your Villain can be Defeated multiple times...)

Except Undead and Horror-spawn. They don't do that at all :evil grin:.

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Re: Open Game vs Closed Game

Postby EDChronicler » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:26 am

I do a hidden dice roll even to the point that if I wanted to fudge rolls in the old Redbrick forum, I'd roll so many times that I only allowed the last few rolls visible to be accurate at points where a player would be killed and unless I did would derail the game, one point was that the horror actually killed 2 of my players and they weren't able to present any kind of defense, so I rolled until the result were painful but not deadly. And my last visible rolls always matched. Even when they were from a previous session and I was only rolling 2 rolls for current session.

Manipulating Perception is a skills I've acquired over the years.


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