You get hold of a major pattern item. It has one Key Knowledge
You study the pattern item using Item History vs Mystic Defence 15
You succeed and find out the Test Knowledge (the name of the True Pattern)
So you've just used Item History and found the test knowledge
So what's 'Studying a Pattern Item' on page 228 for? Is it just a detailed explanation of how to find the Test Knowledge mentioned above?
Also, what's the 'Research' part on page 229 for? "To research a True Pattern the character may use the Research skill." What's this research part if you've already found out the test knowledge? If the test knowledge was about finding out the true pattern's name, is this Research skill check simulating you finding out that name? If so, I thought you had to gain that info (the name) through roleplaying.
I'm lost here
Weaving Threads to Pattern Items
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Re: Weaving Threads to Pattern Items
After you succeed in the first Item History vs Mystic Defence 15, you don't get the actual name of the Item, you get "The Key knowledge for Rank 1 is the Name of the item." Because this is usually the case for rank one, I will give hints based on the result of the test, like what culture or region of Barsaive the item is from based on it's pattern, how old it is, or what type of Adept created it. Upper ranks get more interesting use out of Item History.
Next, you have to track down the info "in the real world", i.e. go out and do the Research. This will vary depending on the item, with those purchased from merchants for full price usually come with the Name, 1st rank Key Knowledge. Other items (or found treasure) can get tricky. You will have to role-play a bit to find a source of info to research from (that's why I give hints for the 1st rank), but then you make the test to see how well you utilized those resources. Many time, in Bartertown or Throal, this means a trip to the Great Library of Throal, dealing with the "entrance customs" (i.e. tipping the librarians), and then seeing what you can get. If that turns up "empty" you can see if there anything on the "archive stacks" of the library (more RP for another Research roll), or otherwise go out and find another source of info to exploit.
Sometimes, this only gives you more clues! "It is known that the Elementalist using this sigil created many Named items in his career, but the Names of many of these items were lost when his workshop in Travar burned down. It is rumored that he also kept a mage's tower warded with his personal sigil in the hills to the east of Travar with his complete library and notes on all his designs, but these rumors are untrustworthy as they come out of Garlthik One-Eye's gang."
Well, looks like you are off to Kratas to deal with Garlthik and his boys to see who saw the tower, then off to Travar for some more research and supplies before heading out to the hills! Get lucky and you'll probably discover the Name of the Elementalist and have a lot of his notes (making running into his other designs in the future very profitable).
It's really about how much of a "Story Hook" the GM wants to make each item. Simple Thread Items from the Great Bazar, again, usually come with basic knowledge like the Item Name and the Name of its creator. Otherwise, I'd bargain that price way-way-way down.
Next, you have to track down the info "in the real world", i.e. go out and do the Research. This will vary depending on the item, with those purchased from merchants for full price usually come with the Name, 1st rank Key Knowledge. Other items (or found treasure) can get tricky. You will have to role-play a bit to find a source of info to research from (that's why I give hints for the 1st rank), but then you make the test to see how well you utilized those resources. Many time, in Bartertown or Throal, this means a trip to the Great Library of Throal, dealing with the "entrance customs" (i.e. tipping the librarians), and then seeing what you can get. If that turns up "empty" you can see if there anything on the "archive stacks" of the library (more RP for another Research roll), or otherwise go out and find another source of info to exploit.
Sometimes, this only gives you more clues! "It is known that the Elementalist using this sigil created many Named items in his career, but the Names of many of these items were lost when his workshop in Travar burned down. It is rumored that he also kept a mage's tower warded with his personal sigil in the hills to the east of Travar with his complete library and notes on all his designs, but these rumors are untrustworthy as they come out of Garlthik One-Eye's gang."
Well, looks like you are off to Kratas to deal with Garlthik and his boys to see who saw the tower, then off to Travar for some more research and supplies before heading out to the hills! Get lucky and you'll probably discover the Name of the Elementalist and have a lot of his notes (making running into his other designs in the future very profitable).
It's really about how much of a "Story Hook" the GM wants to make each item. Simple Thread Items from the Great Bazar, again, usually come with basic knowledge like the Item Name and the Name of its creator. Otherwise, I'd bargain that price way-way-way down.
Last edited by Telarus_KSC on Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Weaving Threads to Pattern Items
Thank you Telarus
Ok so the Studying a Pattern part on page 228 gets you the Test Knowledge, which for this example is to 'find out what the true pattern's name is'?
And the Research on page 229 gets you that name?
I thought you only make the Research roll after you have roleplayed and actively adventured for the name. Is it a one off roll or is it exploration and a one off roll?
Ok so the Studying a Pattern part on page 228 gets you the Test Knowledge, which for this example is to 'find out what the true pattern's name is'?
And the Research on page 229 gets you that name?
I thought you only make the Research roll after you have roleplayed and actively adventured for the name. Is it a one off roll or is it exploration and a one off roll?
Last edited by Jaracove on Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:19 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Weaving Threads to Pattern Items
Oh, this is a question specific to Pattern Items!
Sorry, I was generalizing to Thread Items (but they do work very similarly). Let me review the pages you've cited.
Sorry, I was generalizing to Thread Items (but they do work very similarly). Let me review the pages you've cited.
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Re: Weaving Threads to Pattern Items
Ok I think I've pinpointed what exactly is confusing me
It seems when weaving threads to a magic item, after the Test Knowledge has been successfully accomplished, the Research is conducted with good old fashion adventuring, i.e. it's not directly and solely reliant on a skill roll (page 223)
But when weaving threads to a pattern item, after the Test Knowledge has been successfully accomplished, the Research is conducted with the Research skill (page 229)
Is this correct?
It seems when weaving threads to a magic item, after the Test Knowledge has been successfully accomplished, the Research is conducted with good old fashion adventuring, i.e. it's not directly and solely reliant on a skill roll (page 223)
But when weaving threads to a pattern item, after the Test Knowledge has been successfully accomplished, the Research is conducted with the Research skill (page 229)
Is this correct?
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Re: Weaving Threads to Pattern Items
I think I mixed up true pattern with pattern item
Page 229: "To research a True Pattern the character may use the Research skill (p. 163). To obtain information, he makes a Research test against the Difficulty Number of the information sought."
So the Research skill roll is only used to find info about the True Pattern and not the Pattern Item? Perhaps that's where I got confused
Page 229: "To research a True Pattern the character may use the Research skill (p. 163). To obtain information, he makes a Research test against the Difficulty Number of the information sought."
So the Research skill roll is only used to find info about the True Pattern and not the Pattern Item? Perhaps that's where I got confused
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Re: Weaving Threads to Pattern Items
I understand this part:
Page 228
If the Item History test succeeds, the character learns the Test Knowledge held by the Pattern Item. This knowledge is related to the relationship between the Pattern Item and the True Pattern it represents.
The following confuses me:
Because of this, further research may not be necessary;
Because of what, because of the Item History test?
the research has already been done
What research? No research other than rolling Item History has been done.
to figure out what the Pattern Item might be.
Could I have an example of 'what the Pattern Item might be'?
However, the Item History talent is used to confirm that the item is a Pattern Item and that the research done to identify the item as a Pattern Item is the correct Research Knowledge.
Again, what research? You haven't done any research, all you've done up to now is rolled Item History
If no research was done to identify a Pattern Item, Research Knowledge must be learned as with magical items
What?
Page 228
If the Item History test succeeds, the character learns the Test Knowledge held by the Pattern Item. This knowledge is related to the relationship between the Pattern Item and the True Pattern it represents.
The following confuses me:
Because of this, further research may not be necessary;
Because of what, because of the Item History test?
the research has already been done
What research? No research other than rolling Item History has been done.
to figure out what the Pattern Item might be.
Could I have an example of 'what the Pattern Item might be'?
However, the Item History talent is used to confirm that the item is a Pattern Item and that the research done to identify the item as a Pattern Item is the correct Research Knowledge.
Again, what research? You haven't done any research, all you've done up to now is rolled Item History
If no research was done to identify a Pattern Item, Research Knowledge must be learned as with magical items
What?
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