Ephemeral Bolt and True Ephemeral Bolt

[freid78]

Refering to p.296 and 298, I have a question about that combo of spells.

Since the Duration of Ephemeral Bolt is 2 rounds (more with extra success), is it considered a DOT (damage over time) or the duration is only for the Will debuff? Under Duration (p.269) doesn't help, nor under Determine Duration (p.257).

If Ephemeral Bolt is a DOT, it should be easy to disbelieve on round 2, since True Ephemeral Bolt is not, making it a poor DOT. But even if it's not a DOT, the penalty of -2 Will can still be disbelieve on round 2, making any extra success pretty useless.

On the other hand, since True Ephemeral Bolt is not a DOT, nor a more than 1 round duration debuff, how long does the debuff works? -2 on the next Sensing... can it go up to a week (or more) before the target actually need to make that test? Also, the extra thread of increasing effect is puzzling. What does it mean "Penalty applies to additional Sensing test"? Like for 2 seperate test (or 3, or 4)? So if the enemy is an Illusionnist casting such a debuff on the players, the penalty can fellow the said player for a long time if no other illusionnist are in sight. Would i remember, a month later, to add a penalty of -2 (or -4) to a sensing test in another location, in another story arc?

And to add more, if you make an illusion and a true version of a spell, the effects shouldn't be the same? Disbelieving seems easier on that context, but how similar can two spells be if they have different effects? Also,how can you explain putting these 2 differents spells into the same Spell Matrix?

Thanks in advance

[Razan_GM]

Both arent DoT, only debuff last for duration, damage is dealt only in first round.

You can only Disbelieve when spell is cast, so no Disbelieving on second round.

(in game) If magician design 2 spells to be able to put both in one matrix then you can, very hard but possible. (out of game) Its a better playability for those 2 spells, change was made because in previous editions compared to other spells they sucked .

[freid78]

[Telarus_KSC]

I'll have to re-read the spells when I get home. I believe there is a Knack for "Splitting" a spell matrix in earlier editions. Then you can hold 2 spells, with total Circles up to the Matrix Rank.

[freid78]

[freid78]

Damn, I like the idea of a dual nature spell. The "real" one is dramatically lower, because Illusionnist are not Wizards. They do not master the astral energy like the wizards. But what illusionist can do, is transforming the energy from the "real" stuff into a powerfull "illusion" blast. So all the energy from the "real" spell is used for the show, leaving the target is awe, but without real damage. Making it like a placebo effect.

This would seem the perfect fit... making the caster choose what he will do and hope the target will not disbelieve it. I'll have to check the other spells, and come with some overall rule that would make it possible all around.

Edit : Seems there's another spell that does that, Illusory Missiles and True Missiles (p.311-312). From what is there, I would suggest something like this :

#1 Illusionnist may choose to make a "real" or "illusory" spell when casting.
#2a There's a difference of 4 steps between a "real" and a "illusory" spell from a direct damage spell.
#2b If the spell is not a direct damage, the bonus should be nurf by 4 step (like Monstrous Mantle, the "real" effect could give only +2 Physical Defense, while the "illusory" add +2step close combat Attack and Damage).
#3 Illusionnist may copy a direct damage spell from another magical sphere (aka Wizard, Elementalist or Nethermancer) with a bonus of +1 step when it's illusory and the "real" counterpart should be at a penalty of -3 steps from the orginal spell (hence, a difference of 4steps between the "real" and the "illusion").
#4 Illusionnist may copy a direct damage spell from another magical sphere but count as a spell of one more circle from the original spell circle.
#5 Each spells copied must be learned seperatly (can be learn via Illusionnist spell or directly from the other magical sphere with an extra success to understand the basis of the original spell).

[Razan_GM]

[freid78]

[Telarus_KSC]

In 1st and Classic editions, Illusionists had an 8th Circle spell called "Illusion Spell" that allowed them to copy (as an illusion) any spell they had been affected by. This was removed in 3rd edition. I usually gave NPCs a Crystal Spell Box (threaded item) to allow them to capture spells and have a "real" version to fall back on. Maybe this will be touched on in the ED4 Companion.

This has me thinking about Illusionist play. I'll have to write something up later.

[freid78]