[Ed4] Player's Guide Feedback

Discussion on the Earthdawn game line, errata, and feedback not related to playing or GMing.
Telarus_KSC
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Re: [Ed4] Player's Guide Feedback

Postby Telarus_KSC » Tue May 19, 2015 1:51 pm


Gkeckley
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Re: [Ed4] Player's Guide Feedback

Postby Gkeckley » Tue May 19, 2015 9:07 pm

The problem with rolling straight charisma versus the spirits SoD is we have no idea what the spirits SoD is going to be in this edition. They are pretty high in previous editions. If a force 1 spirit has a SoD of 10 and the Elementalist/nethermancer has a step 6 charisma and you roll charisma straight up then they have a mere 10% chance of success and it would only get worse for higher force spirits. You would need to combine the charisma with an actual talent or possibly with half magic. Otherwise, they have spent 3 talents spirit hold/spirit talk/summon on a talent that seldom works.

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Re: [Ed4] Player's Guide Feedback

Postby Telarus_KSC » Tue May 19, 2015 10:14 pm

Those are free Favors. FREE :D
If you roll poorly, I'd have you fall back to the Asking for Favors rules (basically asking for a favor to start and then trading large favors, with "advantage"* if you bring that up during the bargaining process - Cha vs SD each time).

* per D&D5e - roll twice take the better.

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Re: [Ed4] Player's Guide Feedback

Postby Gkeckley » Wed May 20, 2015 1:11 am

I would not necessarily call it free given how much legend they have to sink into summoning. I do not disagree that charisma should serve some role in summoning. I just think the way they have it is fine. You summon the spirit. Your successes determine the duration. Then you use spirit talk/elemental tongues to get the number of services. If something goes horribly wrong with the summoning you have spirit hold to assist in dealing with the spirit . You then request a service if the spirit does not want to perform the service you make a charisma roll or skill/talent roll to convince it to assist. Of course when using the skill or talent it will require one extra success.

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Re: [Ed4] Player's Guide Feedback

Postby freid78 » Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:55 pm

Following the sub-type and keywords of p.270, it would be nice to expand on this notion on the entire system and not only on spells. Flame arrow for example (p.147) should get "fire" as a keyword. They should also be more stuff like the Dwarf Winternight Cloak that give some protection to fire or ice damage. Hide armor for example should get some protection against cold. And finally, there should be something about a flammable weapon like a Torch (p.426) where it is said in flavor text that it can burn things, but doesn't have the "fire" keyword.

The idea of keywords is to reflect a game mechanic that should be easy to use. Making something "x" resistant should have a game mechanic stated on p.270 (on the keywords or the sub-types section). "x" immune like an Ice elemental "cold" immune" is pretty self-explanatory, but "x" vulnerable is not clear enough. I would suggest something like "x" resistant = double armor value while "x" vulnerable = half armor value.

Everything is already laidout to make this work, just need to write it!

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Re: [Ed4] Player's Guide Feedback

Postby freid78 » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:01 pm

Chilling Cercle (p.323) need to be fixed somehow. Extra thread : Increase Effect (+2 Effect Step) is rather confusing. Is the effect of the spell static or rolled ? Is it Circle + 4 pts of damage or circle +4 step ?

This should also be checked on all spells with static effet (are there other spells like that?) and extra thread.

Thx!

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Re: [Ed4] Player's Guide Feedback

Postby etherial » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:12 pm


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Re: [Ed4] Player's Guide Feedback

Postby Kasbak » Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:03 pm


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Re: [Ed4] Player's Guide Feedback

Postby freid78 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:57 am

Following the keywords, i would also suggest it goes into the weapon and armor section. There isn't much use to give alot of weapon and armor choice if no mechanics cover them. For example, a dwarf sword (p.433) is basically the same thing as a hand axe, a mace, a quarterstaff, a short sword, etc. I don't even understand why the price of the short sword is not the same as the hand axe (it has the exact same statics).

Simple keywords to help out. Like breaking a door (which as an armor) could have "vulnerable chopping" to reduce by half the door's armor against an axe. It would make alot more sense.

For the armor, you already have a keyword (living armor p.411), which has no mechanics (except for obsidiman restriction) associate with it. I personally use the keyword with the armor degradation rule (armor auto-repair itself). But that would not be enough if weapon gain keywords. That being said, why would anyone put an Obsidiman skin (p.435) ?? For 3/1, double de price of espagra cloak, the disavantage are huge. Even worst, for half the price, you get a better armor (Hide armor) without the "Kill on sight" status. You don't want the ini penalty, fine... get a Padded Leather for a 1/5 of the price without the penalty. Who would pay for an armor that would put any obsidiman against you? Basically, i've never seen anyone, except a poorly built ennemy npc, that would put an Obsidiman skin on.

That is... unless the obsidiman skin has a keyword that would balance the penalties. Making it "fire and cold resistant" for example would make it alot more common (unfortunatly for obsidiman). It would make sense to have an armor that someone would actually wear.

And on a final thought, keywords on armor should also consider armor stacking. It's been around for a while, and some mechanics in the 3rd allowed for example to stack Espagra Cloak (because... it's a cloak) on another set of armor. Can the Blood Pebble armor be stacked with a Padded Leather ? Even more historic, can you put some kind of leather or padded cloth under a chain mail (because chain mail was rarely put on naked). And if so, is the armor value the same? Well simple enough, I would suggest either or both 2 keywords. #1 "stackable" and #2 "improve"

#1 The keyword "stackable" would state in the mechanic that a stackable armor only provide half the armor value (rounded down) if it's stacked, and also add another point of initiative penalty. Let's make an example :

I'm wearing a Ring Mail. Since Padded Cloth has the "stackable" keyword, i can put the Ring Mail on the Padded Cloth for a protection of 7-0-3. Oh! it's exactly like a Chain Mail. Of course, the Chain Mail would cost like 70 more silvers for the same protection, but that's not considering the fact that the Chain Mail could also be stacked with the Padded Cloth. Now, if you think this can be a problem with high armor value, don't forget that some weapon could cut in half your armor value.

#2 The keyword "improve" would state in the mechanic that an improved armor doesn't provide more armor, but looses one vulnerability when it's combined, at a price of 1 initiative penalty. Let's make two examples :

I'm wearing a Chain Mail 7-0-3. The Chain Mail is "pierce vulnerable". By adding a Padded Cloth, the Chain Mail would be 7-0-4 without "pierce vulnerable".
I'm wearing a Plate Armor. The Plate Armor is "lightning vulnerable". By adding a Padded Cloth, the Plate Armor is no longer vulnerable, at a price of 1 more initiative penalty.

Adding keywords on weapons and armors would make the choice alot more critical, and also add the fun factor when you realize you choose the right weapon against your enemy.

Edit : I've made an entry in the Gamemaster section House rules to give a suggestion about this idea. viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1528&p=15384#p15384
Last edited by freid78 on Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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etherial
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Re: [Ed4] Player's Guide Feedback

Postby etherial » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:12 am



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