Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

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Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Telarus_KSC » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:47 pm

Panda is saying that the "see detail or glean information" part of the ritual is automatic. That's not what the Target Number represents, or what you are rolling to achieve, so the Archer ability is not applicable. Similarly, if you asked an archer to do a complex add, multiply, subtract math problem in their heads (a Perception roll), they shouldn't get to spend Karma when they "visualize" it.

I think of these kind of threadweaving rolls as navigating a mental maze in order to find the right portion of the pattern to tie your thread to. This "thread sight" doesn't let you look into Astral Space (as the Astral Sight talent does), it allows you to superimpose the image of the threads and pattern in your mind while you work with or look at the object.

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Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby etherial » Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:05 pm


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Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Baravakar » Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:09 pm


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Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Telarus_KSC » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:35 pm

You're a very literal person (no offense meant). :)

The whole "Thread Sight" concept was introduced in 1st Edition's 'Magic: A Manual of Mystic Secrets', and it was a Talent Knack that you had to learn separately. It was an alternative to forcing players to pick up Item History / Weapon History to learn Key Knowledges (something opened up in 4th edition to research and other methods), and should be read in the context that it is an astral sensing method (i.e. not directly perceiving astral space, which can be dangerous as you project an image of yourself into astral space when "fully" / directly perceiving astral space). Even the Astral Sigh talent gets around this, but allows you to "see" details & the surrounding environment as if you were projecting. The name Thread Sight is a metaphor, you only get the simple image of the object you are studying.

The current term even says it's a metal picture, "Thread Sight gives the user a mental picture of the pattern, but with less precision. ... It simply allows an adept to sense enough of the pattern to weave threads to it. ... Thread Sight cannot be used to sense the magical patterns of creatures, Namegivers, or other magical auras." Another key difference is that the Astral Sight talent allows follow-up rolls to get more detail or sense more of the environment/magical patterns around.

The examples give a pretty clear difference of the character "seeing" into astral space and picking out details like running waves around knots of birds, swirling boulders, and flaming sprites inside the item's pattern, but when viewed via Thread Sight it is not literally seen, but the image forms in his mind is much simpler, blue knotwork around colored orbs.

[Edit: I also think keeping everyone's Threadweaving Talent at similar power levels, now that everyone gets it at first Circle, to be a factor in making this ruling.]

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Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Mataxes » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:55 pm

Thread Sight (and Astral sensing in general) does not involve actual sight. It is a translation of the magical impressions into a form the adept is able to understand and interpret. For most adepts, this information is conveyed with "visual" cues.

"Thread Sight" being part of Thread Weaving does not allow an Archer to spend a point of Karma from his Discipline ability on a Thread Weaving test. He may, of course, still spend Karma on the talent as normal.
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Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby daedalron » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:42 pm

Not sure if it's an error or not, but on page 107, the Swordmaster, at 8th circle, gets +2 to his Physical Defense. All the other disciplines get a +3 to a Defense instead. Should the bonus to Swordmaster be a +3 too ? Or is there a reason he only gets 2 ?

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Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Panda » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:04 pm

This was covered .
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Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Baravakar » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:26 am


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Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Tattered Rags » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:58 pm

The way Awareness is written implies to me it is for active searching. Its use is the difference between "I blindly rush down the hallway" and "I enter the hallway, looking for ambushes or traps". In the first instance only Danger Sense would work. In the second, the actively looking gets you a Perception test, or Awareness, and Danger Sense could still work if needed.

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Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Telarus_KSC » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:06 pm

Yes, Awareness is for spotting threats before you have to roll Surprise or Trap Initiative. If you've spotted the threat, you may even do away with the Surprise roll entirely by warning everyone. Danger Sense is for those last minute *the jerk is 3 inches away with a knife*, *the rocks are already falling*, etc, type situations. It also allows you to roll Dex+Rank instead of Perception in Surprise situations.

Note that Awareness is a "Default Skill", but Danger Sense is not (the minor mechanical being people with Disarm Trap can roll raw Perception i.e. default Awareness to find them). This means that Danger Sense is a "2nd chance" reaction, that only a few have access to. Also, Awareness has a short/medium visibility range, while Danger Sense is rank x10 yards. (You should understand that Danger Sense used to be called "Trap Initiative", but was widened into more of a "Spidey Sense" magic to include ambushes.)


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