Beastmasters and animal companions

Discussion on the Earthdawn game line, errata, and feedback not related to playing or GMing.
User avatar
Magic_Octopus
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:44 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Beastmasters and animal companions

Postby Magic_Octopus » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:21 am


User avatar
Panda
Posts: 331
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:40 am
Location: Corvallis, OR
Contact:

Re: Beastmasters and animal companions

Postby Panda » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:36 am

In my opinion, the inherent difficulties associated with animal companions is going to be difficult to resolve while maintaining the current framework. Specifically, there are two primary issues, though they are linked.

The first is getting "better" animal companions as you advance in circle. While it has traditionally been difficult to get a skeorx as a pet, it isn't impossible and they are significantly better than a panther. Enhance Animal Companion and Animal Training both allow standard pets to keep pace as you advance much better, they still cannot bridge that kind of gap (particularly since the skeorx in question benefits as well). Which goes right into the next major hurdle: combat.

Balancing the effectiveness of animal companions in combat is difficult. They need to be relevant and not a liability, but also should not outshine other actual players. Part of this depends on the game (one which has that skeorx versus one which is limited to "normal" creatures are going to see the situation differently) and another part on what the character wants from their animal companions. Economy of actions also comes into play and a character with a menagerie of absolute beasts in combat may create some resentment from them monopolizing the table.

If they aren't looking for fighting companions, then everything is groovy. Part of the solution to the combat issue was focusing the Beastmaster on one theme and making the animal companions optional. This means they aren't an inherent part of the equation for having them contribute effectively.

This is my opinion and I don't know if there is a solution which is up to my standards at all; too many variables at the table level and player versus GM expectations regarding the role animal companions should have in the story. In playtesting, players inclined to like animal companions were delighted with the results. Others were happy they could play the Beastmaster archetype and no longer have to worry about babysitting. It all depends on where you put the bar. I find the current situation acceptable - if I didn't, it never would have rolled out. I just set the bar rather high and note while we are close, my bar may just be set too high.

Hopefully this is helpful.
Earthdawn Developer and I have a gaming , though, let's face it, it is really an Earthdawn blog which also happens to have some reviews.

User avatar
Dale
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:39 pm
Location: Austin, Tx
Contact:

Re: Beastmasters and animal companions

Postby Dale » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:06 pm

It is a difficult problem to tackle I'd wager.

The current incarnation makes the beastmaster functional without the animals being directly in combat. The animal companions have their place in combat but they aren't additional adepts that can go toe to toe with baddies that the adepts in the group are facing.

I think of any animal companions more as scouts than tanks/damage dealers unless they've done something really out there like grab a griffon or skeorx.

In the old 80's move Beastmaster the animals didn't do alot with direct combat overall. What combat they did do tended to be quick surgical strikes rather than prolonged melees.
Dale

User avatar
Mataxes
Site Admin
Posts: 907
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:51 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Beastmasters and animal companions

Postby Mataxes » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:10 pm

I'm well aware of the Beastmaster movie series (and the TV series) and it is pretty clearly an inspiration for the Discipline.

The problem you encounter with something like that brought into a gaming situation is what you want the narrative to allow compared to what the mechanics allow.

As a level-based system with escalating DNs and the like, an animal companion might be able to do something at Novice circles that they wouldn't be able to do at Journeyman tier unless their action dice and characteristics are also increasing. It doesn't matter whether we're looking at combat or not -- as cool as it might be to have a wolf companion, unless her numbers are also increasing to some extent, her ability to contribute becomes limited as power levels increase. This kind of runs counter to the idea of having an animal companion that is part of a character's story.

I agree that while the ED4 version isn't perfect, I don't think perfection is really achievable. However, setting it up so that people who want to have animal companions have tools to allow them to contribute over a broader range of power level, and those who would rather not deal with animal companions aren't saddled with a bunch of required talents they don't have any use for.
Josh Harrison --
Troubadour and Magic Theorist
Line Developer: Earthdawn

User avatar
etherial
Posts: 601
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:29 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Beastmasters and animal companions

Postby etherial » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:31 pm


User avatar
Mataxes
Site Admin
Posts: 907
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:51 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Beastmasters and animal companions

Postby Mataxes » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:54 pm

Maybe? It's not on the short-term radar, but it will probably appear at some point in the future.

While setting up an animal companion as a familiar could sort of patch that hole, it didn't really work with somebody who might want more of a menagerie because of the blood magic cost.
Josh Harrison --
Troubadour and Magic Theorist
Line Developer: Earthdawn

User avatar
Magic_Octopus
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:44 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Beastmasters and animal companions

Postby Magic_Octopus » Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:45 am

Thank you for the answers, this was very interesting and helpful! Seems like Beastmasters are a handful.

User avatar
Dale
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:39 pm
Location: Austin, Tx
Contact:

Re: Beastmasters and animal companions

Postby Dale » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:18 am

On a side note, my first played character in ED1 was a beastmaster. It was a ton of fun but getting and training an animal was painful. I do love the class and always like to see it get some much needed attention.

The one player I had that tried to tackle the BM did great with it in an ED2 game. He never really kept more than 3 beasts and usually it was only 2 (had others around but only had 3 at once that he ever "used"). He made a decent front line fighter and brought a ton of utility to the group.


On another thought, I always though a mix of beastmaster and elementalist would be really cool but have never had a chance to actually play the concept yet. It would probably start as an elementalist with BM as a second discipline. There is just a tad too much in either to try and do it all via versatility.
Dale

Telarus_KSC
Posts: 744
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:26 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Beastmasters and animal companions

Postby Telarus_KSC » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:17 pm

Has anyone on the dev team considered that the Beastmaster fills in the role of Shadowrun's "Rigger" Archetype (controls vehicles and drones via direct brain-to-machine interface)? Might be worth looking at how that evovled over the Shadowrun editions to see if there's anything useful for the Beastmaster...

User avatar
Kasbak
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: Beastmasters and animal companions

Postby Kasbak » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:36 pm

I'm sorry, now I'm picturing a Beastmaster with a bobcat familiar. As in the vehicular bobcat. Comes in really handy if you want to dig a defensive trench without an Elementalist or if you're facing a dragon that won't annunciate and insists that you gravel before him. Okay, I need to stop my brain before it gets any further out of hand.


[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Return to “Product Discussion”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests