New update -- Creatures!

Discussion on the Earthdawn game line, errata, and feedback not related to playing or GMing.
User avatar
Tattered Rags
Posts: 278
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:44 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: New update -- Creatures!

Postby Tattered Rags » Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:24 am


Telarus_KSC
Posts: 744
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:26 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: New update -- Creatures!

Postby Telarus_KSC » Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:21 am

I like that you are building on the 3e Swarm rule template. :) I did a similar thing with my Mass Combat Unit rules (have you seen those Ron?), which I playtestested for a while. I even had a "swarm" Unit of juvenile carnivorous frogs at one point (I was running Greyhawk T-1: Hommlet & the Moathouse).

One thing I used in my mass-combat rules that worked very, very well was this: Swarms/Packs/Units only roll 1 Attack Test and then compare it to the Defense of all valid targets. I limited it to max 3 targets, with a bonus depending on how many Unit Members (or Hexes full of the Swarm in the new model) can attack the Target: +4/+2/+0 for bringing 3/2/1 Member against each target for Units, and the base +6/+3/+0 for Swarms/Packs, and then applying the Harried mod if the Attackers:Target ratio gets to 4:1 or greater. I then roll individual damage rolls on any target that takes a hit. This cut out many extraneous attack rolls as I was running enemies and helping the PCs run 2 Units of hireling armsmen.

I also tracked the Unit Size as a Ranked Stat, with each Wound having a possibility to kill a member. Each Wound scored would grant a bonus d6 damage, and it that d6 rolled a 5-6+ a Unit member died.

I think I'm going to reconsider this with the new Success Levels rule, with a Wound dropping a Swarm/Unit Rating by 1 and handwaving that Swarm members just die, but for Name-giver Units a Wound indicates a Unit member has fallen with a critical Wound (and may die without attention) whereas a Wound+5 indicates a straight up Death (good for immediate intimidation/Morale checks after the Troll decapitates a mook). Either Way, the Unit rating will be reduced, but I'll just have to track Casualties vs WIA (Wounded in Action, out of commission). This allows the Unit Rating to "heal" as the WIA guys may be brought back to full health.

I also tracked damage versus an abstracted Death rating, as you do with Swarms. Reducing the Unit Rating to 0 meant you've killed/incapped all of them, hitting the DR meant the Unit broke and ran with some surviving members escaping. Not all of this is applicable for Swarms, but I like how you are defining them based on how many Hexes they fill (with maybe a note on how many individual members fit in the hex).

RSTilton
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:50 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: New update -- Creatures!

Postby RSTilton » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:45 am


RSTilton
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:50 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: New update -- Creatures!

Postby RSTilton » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:53 am


Telarus_KSC
Posts: 744
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:26 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: New update -- Creatures!

Postby Telarus_KSC » Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:09 am

Stick with the Swarm.Rank x Tou x 6... or my idea of basing it on WT, so Base DR + WT x Swarm.Rank.
[Edited a math flub, I was tired also :P ]

The reason I didn't just multiply DR x Size for my Unit rules was advice Josh had about trying that a few times and finding it reduced combat to very grindy battles of killing the massed-troops. As you have a Death Mechanic in the Swarm Rating tied to Wounds, I would keep the idea that DR causes a Swarm to break and run/disperse.

[Aside: found my Mass-Combat post. I'm going to seriously simplify these rules for my ED4 version: http://www.earthdawncompendium.com/arti ... 2e42000013 ]
Last edited by Telarus_KSC on Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Tattered Rags
Posts: 278
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:44 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: New update -- Creatures!

Postby Tattered Rags » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:00 am


RSTilton
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:50 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: New update -- Creatures!

Postby RSTilton » Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:18 pm

I could leave the wound Threshold the same rating, but as it's a swarm it would required 2 additional successes to inflict a Wound (What would have been an excellent result in 3e.) Less math is good in creating the swarm.

User avatar
Tattered Rags
Posts: 278
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:44 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: New update -- Creatures!

Postby Tattered Rags » Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:21 pm


Slimcreeper
Posts: 394
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:18 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: New update -- Creatures!

Postby Slimcreeper » Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:23 pm

Subject change (because numbers bore me, I'm trusting you guys to figure that out): I would like to see a combat effectiveness rating divorced from LP awards. I think the LP award should be based on accomplishing goals: distracting the leviathan just long enough to get the ship into harbor, then frantically scrambling into a small cave before the leviathan finishes the heroes off. LP could be based on getting the precious herbs past the ork scorchers to the village that is desperately sick: Full credit if it is done and every thing goes perfectly. Penalties if allies die, penalties if the players have to give up a bunch of silver or loot to bribe them off. Maybe each setback is worth a penalty of mild, moderate or severe, based on GM discretion. So for example: navigating an encounter with a set of fiendish traps in a kaer is worth 100 LP each to a party of 2nd level heroes. Each having a hero die is a severe setback, causing a LP penalty for each of the surviving heroes - because the goal is to get through alive.

However, in battling a Horror that has slaughtered village after village, having a hero die might not be a setback at all, because the goal is to destroy the Horror, not get through unscathed. A Severe penalty would be assessed if the horror defeats the heroes and escaped. A moderate penalty might be assessed if the horror is only weakened and banished. A mild penalty for every innocent bystander that is killed. A Good Bonus may be called for if the sword master dives in front of a blow intended to slay the village headmaster. An Extraordinary Bonus may be called for if the party comes up with an incredible plan that lets the sword master taunt the horror, drawing him out, while the obsidiman heaves a boulder off a cliff onto the Horror's head, trapping it and allowing for a relatively painless victory. When writing the adventure, the GM would decide what the goal is for a given encounter. The GM would come up with several examples of mild, moderate, and severe Setbacks. The GM would come up with several examples of Good, Excellent, and Extraordinary Successes that might provide LP bonuses.

The combat rating might look something like Bog Gob: 1. A Bog Gob is a reasonable threat to a single circle 1 character. Or it might be something like Initiate, Ratio 1:1 (one bog gob per character). Explicitly telling that if he wants a 'balanced fight' against an average party, how many to put in play. No looking up a chart, just looking at the stat block and seeing that he or she needs 3-4 to provide a reasonable challenge, or 10 to make it completely unreasonable and force the party to flee.

Telarus_KSC
Posts: 744
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:26 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: New update -- Creatures!

Postby Telarus_KSC » Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:50 pm

++ I think the LP award should be based on accomplishing goals++

The LP rules-as-written in the (3rd ed. GMG, pg 97) read exactly like that.

And I've always interpreted them as the players earn their LP by defeating the challenge (not killing their opponent). For example, the 'Roleplaying' setion of the 1st Edition book has an Elven Archer and a (rabid) Dwarf Skyraider talk their way past 10 Ork Guards in front of Garlthik's headquarters. If I were to run this scene, the 2 players would get a major Conflict LP Award (note how I didn't say they would get "LP for each Ork").

Now, the problem I think does lie in the term "Legend Award", as that leads to the mis-interpretation that you have to award LP (maybe divided by party size) to each player who defeats/kills something based on the "Legend Award" entry in the creature statistics. This is not how LP Awards are supposed to work, however, as described in that section of the rules. This is why the Legend Award Table has ranges to give out, so if the players defeat something easily, a low-end Conflict Award is granted, but if something seemingly easy turns out to be near Total Party Kill, you can give out the high-end of the Award range.

I think changing the term in the stat-block is a really good idea. I would recommend "Challenge Rating".


[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Return to “Product Discussion”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests