Mass Combat

[Danos]

Yeah, I think that is more what I need to come up with. The more I thought about it yesterday and today, the more I want to avoid creating a metagame of mass combat. I think a simple chart of bonuses and penalties, and maybe a framework of possible scenes that I can random roll in case something comes up that I didn't expect or if inspiration fails me is the way to go. I am going to see what I can come up with, but the idea of using victory points to give clues is a very good one. Especially the part with about one third of the clues being wrong. Heck, I might always give three clues, and the number of victory points will determine how many of the clues are true and how many are false. I'm going to give this some more thought.

[Leviathan of Maddoc]

Yes, definitely a chart or framework. I don't think you want to let a metagame chew up your narration but your players still want the system you use to be consistent and fair. If you don't mind it would be cool if you post whatever you end up using.

[Danos]

I'm working on something now, I'll probably be asking for some help. Then once I get it done I'll definitely share.

So let me ask for help with Military Tactics rolls. I am going with the idea that VPs on a Warfare roll gives you more accurate information, and that it should be an opposed roll, so if the player character loses that roll, the GM should make life more difficult. Anyway, I have a partial list of modifier examples, and I want a few more examples. Here is what I have so far:

+ VP Successes on a skill roll for Study of opposing commander.
+ VP Successes on a Logistics skill roll to bring rested, well fed troops to the battlefield
+2 Served with opposing commander in the past
-2 Opposing commander is an unknown
+4 Home ground (defending or attacking your own fief)
+2 Familiar terrain (i.e. trained in mountain fighting, battle is in the mountains)
-4 Unfamiliar terrain (i.e. trained in desert fighting, battle is in jungle)

So, any ideas for other things? The list isn't meant to be exhaustive, or mandatory, only examples, but I want it to be useful. I'm not sure whether to add modifiers for tech. And I am considering adding a +2 modifier for radio communications, to represent better command and control during the battle if you have radio links to your subordinates. Along about the first thing my engineers add to helmets is a radio link, it is useful and would be a big advantage in battle.

[Angelman]

If you display mass combat as successive "turns" of fighting, you should possibly give a bonus to the side that "won" the last turn? Also, having player actions alter the goal modifier might be smart - like having one mission/event/operation per turn for the cadre to tackle, letting the outcome sway next turn's Warfare goal?

Also, I should mention that Angus and I had a alternative abstract system in FS3 that worked like a obstacle course. In that system, the GM would set, say 5 obstacles - specific objectives in the battle - that the cadre could try to overcome in succession, with each obstacle influencing the next.

[Danos]

I am trying to avoid a metagame, because the more I think about it, the more I agree with the idea of avoiding it. As the GM, I usually know who 'should' win or lose a battle. I am trying to come up with a framework of determining what happens, and letting the players deal with it. The problem I have is that I am too predictable. I need a chart for some random rolls, or every opponent from the Kurgans to feral vorox will try to lure the players into an ambush and use ranged weapons as much as possible. That is what I like, but it is inappropriate to use my own tactics for every opponent they face, especially when I am looking at a campaign that will have a large number of platoon and company sized battles.

So, I love the idea of using the Tactics roll to figure out what is actually happening. But I need a sample list of tactics to choose or randomly roll on. Then I will need to pull it all together. So, that said, I need some more help. I have a list of common tactics. I would ideally like to get to 20 of these for a random roll, or 18 and I can weight them on a 3d6 roll. So, can you guys suggest something I missed or need to reword? Thanks!

Common Tactics

1.Charge.
2.Cavalry charge.
3.“Special” weapons attack (i.e. gas, biological, technological, supernatural, etc.).
4.“Hidden” weapons defense (i.e. mines, pit traps, moat monsters, etc.)
5.Skirmish and give ground.
6.Ranged attacks from behind field fortifications (trench warfare).
7.Skirmish line to guard artillery.
8.Shield wall or field fortifications to guard artillery.
9.Artillery barrage followed by a charge.
10.Skirmish and flank attack.
11.Feigned retreat and flank attack.
12.Feigned retreat and ambush.
13.Cavalry raid on logistics (i.e. raiding the supply depot).
14.Special Forces attack on command center.

[Danos]

Should I post my notes as a PDF link or break it into chunks to post? I don't want to spam the board, but I'm not sure which approach is better.

Mind you, I'm not totally satisfied with my work, but it has held up in two battles, so it is good enough for other people to pick it apart and suggest improvements.

[Bogie]

Go ahead and spam the boards

[Danos]

Fading Suns
Mass Combat Rules

The Emperor Wars may be over, but peace is a relative term. Wars rage on Hira and Stigmata. Rebellions and uprisings rage across Gwynneth, Rampart, Malignatius, and Cadavus. Aliens raid outposts on Severus and Kordeth, and barbarians raid the border worlds. At any given time, rival nobles may skirmish on any world in the Empire. The skies may no longer be darkened by fleets carrying legions to invade worlds, but the soldiers who die in skirmishes and small battles are just as dead as those who fell in the fury of the Emperor Wars.

Warfare is an important setting for the Passion Play, but no one wants to watch the gamemaster make roll after roll for dozens of non player character opponents and subordinates in a mass combat. These rules are intended to give a fast and easy framework for incorporating larger scale battles into your game.

Making a mass combat move smoothly will require some preparation on the part of the gamemaster. First, the gamemaster must determine what result best serves the story, and narrate that result. If it truly doesn't matter, make opposed skill rolls using appropriate social skills to determine whose troops fight better. But in general, the expected outcome is clear. Elite troops fighting militia will almost always win. Vuldrok raiders will make a quick attack, grab whatever loot is laying around, then retreat. Husks will continue to shamble forward until they are killed. As a player, these outcomes are no surprise, but they are boring.

This is the place to use some of Andrew's Maxims: Always err on the side of fun, and let the characters affect the dice at least as much as the dice affect the characters. Ideally, the gamemaster will already have an idea how the battle should run. These rules are intended to help insert the player characters into the battle and make their role meaningful. If the opponent likes to raid the enemy headquarters, then at some point during the battle, the player character commander will be forced to fight in personal combat while at the same time continue receiving runners, radio reports, and requests for support or help. Does the character stop issuing orders until the fight is done, or continue to bark commands over the radio while dueling a vorox commando or a dervish? If the enemy likes to use artillery, do you dig in and wait for them to run out of ammo, or rush them and try to get too close for artillery fire?

[Danos]

Rules

Before the battle begins, the gamemaster should choose the tactics favored by the enemy commander. If you aren't sure what tactics to use, you may roll randomly. Ideally, choose three tactics, for the beginning, middle, and end of the battle, to prepare for the Fog of War rule (see below).

Common Tactics

Opening Gambits (chose one or roll 1d6)
1. Charge.
2. “Special” weapons attack (i.e. gas, biological, technological, supernatural, etc.).
3. “Hidden” weapons defense (i.e. mines, pit traps, moat monsters, etc.)
4. Ranged attacks from behind permanent fortifications (siege).
5. Ranged attacks from behind field fortifications (trench warfare).
6. Surprise attack (i.e. night attack, attacking before the opposing army is mustered, orbital landing, etc.).

Battle is Joined (choose one or roll 1d6)
1. Charge (again).
2. Artillery barrage followed by a charge.
3. Skirmish and flank attack.
4. Feigned retreat (or actual retreat) and flank attack or ambush.
5. Ranged attacks from behind permanent fortifications (siege).
6. Ranged attacks from behind field fortifications (trench warfare).

Winners and Losers (choose one or roll 1d6)
1. Charge (and keep charging until your horse has the sense to run away).
2. Ranged attacks from behind permanent fortifications (siege).
3. Ranged attacks from behind field fortifications (trench warfare).
4. Artillery barrage to shatter enemy remnants, or to use up ammunition before spiking the guns to deny them to the enemy.
5. Special Forces attack on command center (as ultimate gambit to salvage a victory, or to crush the leaders of the defeated enemy).
6. Pursuit or Flight (victorious troops pursue using cavalry or vehicles, or defeated troops flee until they are able to regroup).

Next, make an opposed roll of Warfare skills pitting the player character commander against the enemy commander. Apply modifiers to these rolls based on the situation. Some recommended modifiers are given below.

Warfare Skill roll modifiers

(This is not intended to be an exhaustive list, nor are you bound to use modifiers just because they are listed. These are simply guidelines and examples)

+ VP Successes on a skill roll for Study of opposing commander.
+ VP Successes on a Logistics skill roll to bring rested, well fed troops to the battlefield
+ 2 Served with opposing commander in the past
- 2 Opposing commander is an unknown
+ 4 Home ground (defending or attacking your own fief)
+ 2 Familiar terrain (i.e. trained in mountain fighting, battle is in the mountains)
- 4 Unfamiliar terrain (i.e. trained in desert fighting, battle is in jungle)
+ 2 Communications network (i.e. radio or other instant communication with subordinates)

Fog of War

Now, as the players are planning the battle, when they scout the enemy or simply size up the situation, you should describe the expected tactics of the enemy based on their formations, any study of the opposing commander, and so forth. If the player character got 1-2 VP, then he or she has correctly guessed the opening tactic of the enemy, but the other expected tactics are either mistaken or outright wrong. If the player character got a net of 3-4 VP on the opposed rolls, then to of the three expected tactics are correct. On 5 or more net VP, every action of the enemy commander is expected or easily discerned.

Conversely, if the enemy gained 1-2 VP on the opposed roll, they know what to expect from the player characters based on the opening of the battle. If they gained 3-4 net VP, it will be difficult for the player characters to trick or surprise them, and if they gained 5 or more net VP, then as the gamemaster you should confront them with an enemy who anticipates their every move and makes the best decisions possible.

[Danos]

Example

A group of rebels led by the player characters is attacking an oppressive Hawkwood noble on Gwynneth. Baron Johann Larken Hawkwood calls up his militia, summons his household troops and knights to crush the rebels, and cranks up the two tanks he won in the high stakes poker game after the reception for Duke Alvarex last year.

The gamemaster decides that Baron Johann will start the battle with a charge by his militia. He expects his militia to break, if they do, he will set an ambush with his household troops and his two tanks to catch the rebels as they pursue the militia. If the militia do not break, he will send his troops and knights on the tanks to position for a flank attack while the rebels are engaged.

Now the Player makes a Warfare: Military Tactics roll to figure out the order of battle. Baron Johann is a gifted amateur, with a Wits of 6 and a skill of 3. The player needs 3 VP to realize that the Baron intends to use his militia simply to position the rebels for the real assault, and needs 5 to understand that the Baron has planned for the militia losing but can adjust his tactics should the militia win. If the player only gets 1 victory point, the arrival of the Baron and his elite troops on those two tanks may come as quite a surprise. If the Baron wins the contest, then the rebel troops will almost certainly lose the battle. This may not affect the player characters, they could defeat the Baron and his elite troops, and seize the tanks, but then spend days rallying their broken troops. Remember, these rules are intended to give a framework for what is happening to all those extras without forcing the gamemaster to play out some game within a game or make tedious rolls for non player characters.