EDR Planned Products?

Discussion on the Earthdawn game line, errata, and feedback not related to playing or GMing.
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slayride
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Re: EDR Planned Products?

Postby slayride » Fri May 31, 2013 12:31 pm

As for the origin of Savage Worlds Check out The Game's the Thing Season 2: Episode 2, the Shane Lacy Hensley interview (12:00 minutes in roughly).

http://ec.libsyn.com/p/5/7/7/577f292199 ... id=2352752

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ArcadianRefugee
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Re: EDR Planned Products?

Postby ArcadianRefugee » Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:01 am

You know what I'd like to see? More spells. One of the biggest complaints that I get from players is that the variety of spells available to each Discipline (at each Circle) is rather tight. I know I can find one of the 1e books and use the rules for spell creation, but seeing something "official" would be nice.

For example, the number of decent illusion spells available to a 1st Circle Illusionist is rather appalling. Heck, there are only eight total 1st Circle spells, not all of which are even illusions.

:K

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Re: EDR Planned Products?

Postby zayven » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:26 am

Don't even get me started on spells and spellcasters.

I know that ED isn't supposed to be like D&D where spellcasters are walking artillery platforms, but I still don't quite understand what role they're supposed to fill in combat. They can't really do crowd control or spread a lot of damage over an area. They're also so limited by the nature of the game's casting mechanics (Spell Matrices and the Thread Weaving before Spellcasting process) that you can't really bring a lot of the spells you do have to bear in a given encounter. While I understand that these limitations are integral to the setting and part of what makes ED what it is, they don't always make spellcasters a very appealing discipline for a lot of players.

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ArcadianRefugee
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Re: EDR Planned Products?

Postby ArcadianRefugee » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:39 am

My players would agree with you on those counts. I have yet to figure out a way to alleviate those limitations while keeping them balanced.

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Re: EDR Planned Products?

Postby zayven » Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:45 pm

I guess the spell list runs into the same problem that all rpgs have: some spells are just better than others.

For instance, Nethermancers get Bone Dance as a first circle spell. I think they've toned this spell down a bit since first edition, but it is HORRENDOUSLY overpowered for a first circle spell. If you get a good spellcasting roll (which you should, because probably added Karma to it), you get to effectively stun lock the target for several rounds. The only hitch is that you have to concentrate in order to maintain the spell effect and it takes the player out of the action.

GM- "What are you doing this turn?"
Nethermancer- <stands up and flails limbs wildly> "When I get that feeling, I gotta sing! When I get that feeling, IIIIIIII gotta sing!"
GM- <looks around, embarrassed> "Bone Dance, okay then. Who's got next initiative?"

I think this is just a problem that all games have to deal with in some way. I guess I've never felt like there weren't enough spells, just that it was sometimes difficult to feel like you were getting the most out of them. ED took the admirable approach to having lots of spells that you could use outside of a combat context, but I think that ended up limiting what casters could actually do in a fight. Somebody brought up 4th edition D&D on one of the other posts and for all its faults, one of the things that system did well was clearly define what roles different classes played in combat situations. While Classic and 3rd edition ED did a lot to balance out the disciplines against one another, I wish more time had been spent on figuring out how to integrate them on the battlefield. Given that all characters are adepts, there should be a whole subsystem of the rules devoting to making talents interact within a group of adepts. It would fit within the lore of the setting because you could say it represents the connections that make up the group's pattern.

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ArcadianRefugee
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Re: EDR Planned Products?

Postby ArcadianRefugee » Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:43 pm


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slayride
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Re: EDR Planned Products?

Postby slayride » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:31 pm

House Rule #1: Thread Weaving DN x 2 =2 threads x3= 3 threads, etc.
House Rule #2: Immediate Cast, if the spell has only that one threads and you double the Thread Weaving DN, immediately cast the spell.
Same thing for something like Thread Weave on the Fly. If you somehow x 2 the big number, add a thread or autocast after switching a new spell into a spell matrix.

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ArcadianRefugee
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Re: EDR Planned Products?

Postby ArcadianRefugee » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:05 pm

Actually, #1 is in the book, as is "#3". Allowing a same-round casting (not in the book) might help, too.

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Re: EDR Planned Products?

Postby zayven » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:43 pm

While house rules like this are always options, they fail to address the main problem that ArcadianRefugee points out. The Warrior doesn't have to double his target number in order to hit something during the same round he attacks. Sure, they could burn Karma Points to make the test, but it's hardly fair to expect the caster to have to spend karma just to be active in the fight.

I've never understood why it requires a full turn to weave a thread. I get that it's a complicated process and so forth, but from a game mechanics standpoint it limits the effectiveness of casters in combat. I think I used to allow casters to weave one thread and, if they succeeded, still make their spellcasting test in the same turn, but this still leaves casters at a disadvantage compared to other disciplines. Every time you make a roll, there is a risk that you will fail your action. Whereas a martial discipline must expose themselves to that risk twice (once to hit and once to cause damage), casters must do it three times (thread weaving, spellcasting, effect test).

Spells generally don't seem to do enough damage to offset the loss of a turn while weaving the thread. I'd like to see somebody break this down mathematically (average damage output per turn for each discipline at each circle), but I suppose there are too many variables (talent rank, attribute step, weapon damage, etc) for it to be meaningful. Still, a hypothetical model of an "average" build of each discipline would be interesting to see.

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slayride
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Re: EDR Planned Products?

Postby slayride » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:56 am

Actually the way the book reads it you only get 1 additional on a x2 result. To get more than 2 threads you need to specifically declare it. So trying for 3 threads on a 10 DN would be a 30 DN, If successful you get 3 threads, if you fail you get nothing.


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