EDR Planned Products?

Discussion on the Earthdawn game line, errata, and feedback not related to playing or GMing.
Pig Narcissus
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Re: EDR Planned Products?

Postby Pig Narcissus » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:03 pm

Having just read through this entire thread there are a few thoughts I'd like to add. Although people seem to be pretty against the LRG 2nd Ed stuff this is the version of the game my group (who've been playing ED fairly regularly since the mid-90s) stick closest to. For my money The Wanderer's Way and The Way of War are two of the best sourcebooks available and have brilliant descriptions of disciplines which really boosted our character design and development. The product I would most like to see released is a version of the unpublished third book in the series The Way of Will, as the extra level of development we've seen in other characters could also be applied to our spellcasters. I'd hate to see any major changes to the game system and mechanics, as this is the reason we've played ED for so long as opposed to say WHFRP or D&D (4th Ed D&D is spectacularly horrible). The only game which I really think can hold a candle to it is...

Deadlands. If you haven't played it try to get hold of the original version of Weird West. Although the system seems quite convoluted at first read, once you get it up and running you see why it scooped so many awards. The use of cards and poker rules really does enhance the setting and the amount of source material available gives you incredible options for writing adventures and developing campaigns.

zayven
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Re: EDR Planned Products?

Postby zayven » Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:44 pm

To be honest, I'm not sure why there's so much hostility towards 2nd edition. I think people were mostly upset with the Barsaive at War book more than anything else. The moment word leaked out that it differed in some way from Fasa's original outline for it, that allowed them to paint Living Room Games as having "betrayed" ED in some way. At least, that's my observation of why the hostility exists. I never really had an issue with any of the mechanics changes that 2nd edition employed, but I never had the Wanderer's Way or Way of War books.

I do find it interesting that so many people feel so strongly about the rules, though. I've been playing ED since first edition came out and I've never really had strong feelings about the rules one way or another. It's all about the setting for me. I do like how the rules try to provide a logical explanation for class based character progression, but nothing about the game ever felt terribly revolutionary or extraordinary to me. I could say that about a lot of game systems, though. I'm kind of a rules-lite sort of GM, so I tend to look at game systems as crude tools for facilitating role playing.

I like some more than others for various reasons because of where they place their emphasis. The reason I don't like 3.5 D&D derived systems like Pathfinder is because they subordinate everything to gaming your level progression across core and prestige classes to become the "koolest" character possible. 4th edition does this too, but at least 4e is honest about the fact that the system is all about min/max number crunching. 3.5 always tried to convince you that it was a robust role playing system because you could take feats that gave (paltry) bonuses to skill checks even though it would mean that you would have to sit on the sidelines while the dual wielding, cleaving, whirlwind attacking fighter/"uber-prestige class X from splatbook A" got to have all the fun in encounters. I kind of liked that 4e just punted on roleplaying related elements. It was an admission of "yeah, D&D is really about kicking in doors and busting heads; figure the roleplaying stuff out on your own."

For me, ED works best when you're not rolling dice because it has such a well-developed, immersive setting. The moment the dice start coming out, the game just grinds to a halt for me and pulls me out of that experience. I suppose that's why I always sound like I'm pushing for major changes. I want to not notice the rules when I'm playing, but I feel like they're always getting in my way in one fashion or another.

That probably isn't so much a criticism as a personal preference, though. It's not very fair of me to try to impose my personal idea of ED onto other players, especially the ones who feel really strongly about the rules.

zayven
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Re: EDR Planned Products?

Postby zayven » Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:59 pm

I felt much the same way about Shadowrun, honestly. That was definitely a game where I put up with a rules system that I REALLY didn't like because I loved the setting so much. The big changes for 4th edition finally made the rules system tolerable for me to the point where I could play the game without getting frustrated with it every ten minutes.

Same goes for the White Wolf Storyteller system. There were so many things about that system that drove me nuts (have players shoot at each other with a fully automatic weapons if you're looking for a surefire way to waste a few hours), but I would put up with it if I felt the roleplaying experience was worth it. Needless to say, the redesign for the "new" World of Darkness was greatly appreciated.

Earthdawn certainly isn't on the level of those games for me. It's definitely playable and I can put up with the host of little things that drive me nuts about it. The reason I keep harping on about the rules, though, is that LRG/Redbrick/FASA Games have all been selling me the same basic experience for over ten years now. I'm not sure why I'm supposed to be excited about buying what amounts to minor revisions to a rules set that I wasn't crazy about in the first place. The setting was always the main draw of Earthdawn, not the game system. Since 2nd, Classic, 3rd, and Revised editions are all essentially minor rules updates wrapped up in the same flavor text and artwork that was used in 1993, I'm starting to wonder if players actually ARE being drawn to the rules system first and the game setting second.

Am I the only person that feels this way? I know I'm a rules-lite kind of guy, but is it REALLY the rules system that makes everyone love Earthdawn so much? I'm not trying to start a fight about this; I'm genuinely curious.

Pig Narcissus
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Re: EDR Planned Products?

Postby Pig Narcissus » Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:53 pm

It's not that it's the rules system that makes me love ED, but I do find that it runs smoothly enough when you need to employ it. What I'd mainly like to see is more sourcebooks relating to areas of Barsaive (like Iopos, Jerris, Parlainth, etc), all of the published disciplines collected in one place and expanded to the same level (journeymen/horror stalkers/purifiers etc. all listed up to circle 15) and maybe something expanding on questors. That's the sort of information that I personally would find really useful to flesh out the world and develop better characters to roleplay. I totally agree with you about it working best when you're not rolling dice. I'd like to see more information relating to the setting rather than rehashing the old stuff to fit marginal rule revisions. What I liked about 2nd Ed was that there was a lot of fluff to come with it and it really did advance the setting and I'd like to see more of that.

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slayride
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Re: EDR Planned Products?

Postby slayride » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:13 pm

The 15 extra Disciplines were brought up to Fifteenth Circle in the Namegivers of Barsaive/Namegiver's Compendium for EDC/Third Edition, so that might be worth checking out. You can use it as is or use it as an overlay on top the Second Edition versions (i.e. Circle 1-8 2ed and then 9-15 edc/third edition).

Pig Narcissus
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Re: EDR Planned Products?

Postby Pig Narcissus » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:18 am

Ah sweet, I'll check that out, cheers. I didn't really get far with 3rd Ed, but this might make it worth my while to pick up some more of those books.

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Anunnaki
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Re: EDR Planned Products?

Postby Anunnaki » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:39 pm


zayven
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Re: EDR Planned Products?

Postby zayven » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:12 am

Thanks for that response!

This helps to give a much better idea of where the company is at with things at the moment and what we can expect going forward. I can't speak for anyone else here, but much of my initial concern came from the lack of updates after the initial wave of big announcements. In all the excitement of the FASA name returning, I probably had unrealistic expectations of what was going to happen right away. When the news dried up a bit after the initial releases, there was definitely a part of me that worried that the acquisition of ED had simply been a license grab to provide a cash influx. I didn't believe that could be the case given that so many people with FASA Games had been involved with ED in the past in some capacity, but I was a little concerned that their ambition might outstrip their resources. With so many game companies flaming out over the last decade, it can be hard to feel secure about companies having enough staying power to make good on those ambitions.

Anyway, it sounds like FASA has a pretty realistic plan for managing its properties over the next few years, so I feel a lot better about the long-term prospects of ED now. Like I said before, I'm willing to live with "maybe" because that's sometimes the best that you can hope for given the volatile nature of the games industry. There are a lot of dead game lines that wish they could still hang their hats on "maybe."

Thanks again for the info and I'm sorry if I rattled the cage too obnoxiously with any of my comments!

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Anunnaki
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Re: EDR Planned Products?

Postby Anunnaki » Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:56 am

Hiya,

I think there's also some confusion and misconception around the FASA thing, which hasn't helped matters. Well, based on the number of emails I get each week asking for help with the Shadowrun and Mechwarrior computer games, there is. :) If you go to the About link at the top of this forum (or on our main web site), it covers how things clip together with FASA Corporation and FASA Games (two different entities, though sharing some common DNA), and also our relationship with Ral Partha Europe.

But from hard experience, there is always an expectation that things just suddenly happen after a major change, that products take months to make and deliver, that artwork appears like water from a faucet, and so on. Given unlimited resources (time, money, people), that might be the case. But we are not in that situation and therefore decisions are made more conservatively and we exercise patience instead. :)

Also, we are on both Facebook and Google+. There's usually teasers and such posted on those places -- News announcements and Blogs/Articles, as larger items, appear on the web site and on our social sites -- that can provide some clues as to what's going on behind the scenes.

Hope this all helps!

Take kaer, James

zayven
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Re: EDR Planned Products?

Postby zayven » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:26 am

Just to qualify, I didn't expect to actually see a bunch of new products released right away after FASA Games was established. I realize that it takes a lot of time to put that sort of thing together from a conceptualization, writing, and editorial standpoint. What I meant by "things happening" was an announcement for what sort of general things are in the pipeline (new sourcebooks, adventures, etc) for the next few years.

But after seeing the issues that FASA is dealing with right now, I can see why that didn't happen. It probably would be a bad idea to throw out a bunch of potential products without having anything like firm release dates because then people are going to spend all their time asking about when "product x" is coming and will be all up in arms if that project is either cancelled or changed for some reason. I didn't think about how difficult it must be to manage fan expectations, especially with such a vocal community.

Of course, the fact that you have people asking you Shadowrun and Battletech questions probably isn't helping matters! I'm glad to see that nobody is on the forums asking when you're going to release a second edition of Shadowrun DMZ.


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