Airship Weapons

Discussion on the Earthdawn game line, errata, and feedback not related to playing or GMing.
Scott Drebus
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:42 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Airship Weapons

Postby Scott Drebus » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:08 pm


User avatar
Tattered Rags
Posts: 278
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:44 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Airship Weapons

Postby Tattered Rags » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:58 pm

Last edited by Tattered Rags on Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Utsukushi
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:05 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Airship Weapons

Postby Utsukushi » Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:49 pm

Too late to use TORG's logarithmic system, I'm afraid. Ah, TORG... *wistful sigh*

Maybe if, like, Airships health points all counted as 100 health points each, and their damage points counted as 100 damage points each, and we called it "Mega-Da'--" *Picks up phone* Oh, nevermind, my lawyers tell me this has been done, and led to all kinds of silliness, like teleporting halflings that had Mega-Damage hitpoints.

I remember reading a bit by the guy who wrote GURPS Black Ops once (it might even have been in the introduction, but I don't think so) where he said he wanted to simplify things, giving Black Ops some sort of 75-point Advantage that would basically let them do all the cool stuff he wanted them to be able to do, but without looking like 800-point characters. And the decision from SJGames came down that, no, if this Advantage was replacing, well, say, 700 points of stuff, then it wasn't a 75-point Advantage and if Black Ops characters had to be in the 750 - 1000 point range to be what they needed to be... then that's what he needed to do. Which I think was the right call, so that nobody would mix them in with, say, 300 point Superheroes and then wonder why the Supers were irrelevant next to the secret agents. But my *point* is:

If ships are only going to interact with ships (and other structures, I suppose - airboats, riverboats, forts, Sky Raiders, Verjigorm, etc.) while Namegivers only interact with other Namegivers (and creatures and beasts and most other Horrors, but not Ubyr, come to think of it, he'd be on the Mega-Damage scale too... anyway) -- then I think developing a whole new system around Airship Combat - or really, "Structure Combat" I guess - makes total sense, and even though I suspect it will feel like a clunky add-on, it's probably just fine because it will only be used by people who need it and they'll probably appreciate it for what it is.

But, if we want Namegivers to interact with ships and ships with Namegivers... then I think we have a perfectly fine system already in place. Yes, Really High Damage Steps might be awkward and intimidating, and Really High Armor Ratings would be hard to overcome, but they are also both already in the system, which I think gives them a major edge over anything else, and they do work. If a 10th Circle Warrior can punch a Named Horror and hope to hurt it, I don't have any problem with the idea that they could do the same thing to an Airship. I don't think it should be easy, but, you know, with their Living Crystal Arm and their Desperate Blow Charm and whatever punch-enhancing spell they can talk their pet-- er, friend spellcaster out of, if they get a good roll, then, awesome! And it is not, in Fourth Edition, as if we have to worry about an Armor Defeating Hit slagging the ship with one devil-may-care flick of the wrist, so all ships need are high Armor Ratings and high Health Ratings.

And then we'll know that Airships can interact with not only Namegivers, but also big Horrors, and Dragons, and flying creatures. And that riverboats can interact with all those plus swimming creatures. And landships... er, anyway, you get the idea. Keep it simple. They do need some fleshing out, I agree, but in terms of their ability to fit in with the rest of the universe, a whole new system is just going to complicate things, and risk leaving major loose ends. Like why is a Horror like Verjigorm apparently unable to scratch even small wooden Airships, just because Horrors weren't updated to the same system on the grounds that Namegivers have to be able to fight Horrors... and if you upgrade some Horrors to the structural level and not others, exactly where do we draw the line, and how do we explain that point where this Horror is on the Times 100 Scale (or whatever), while this other Horror that is one foot shorter isn't?

I suppose we could copy D&D and go with the whole Tiny/Small/Medium/Large/Colossal thing and offer multipliers according to that, but then... how is that simpler than just higher and lower Steps again?

User avatar
Tattered Rags
Posts: 278
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:44 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Airship Weapons

Postby Tattered Rags » Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:51 pm

I completely agree that as much of the system as is needs to be used.

Since you used the word "structure", I assume you were referencing my earlier post. I never intended those to be on a different scale from a Namegiver's health ratings, but thought a different set of jargon would provide different results at each threshold. Instead of an Unconsciousness Rating, have a Stall Rating, which indicates the ship loses all movement (mast is broken, etc.) but the guns still work, and a Wreck Rating instead of a Death Rating (though here the functionality is probably the same).

The key is that Great Dragons need to still be able to adequately fight a behemoth or swat a drakkar out of the sky. Leviathans bite riverboats in two. It may very well be that the right solution is to just up the damage steps and armor.

However, there still needs to be good "vehicle rules" that make it easy to run an airship battle without making it seem like the guy stuck on the Dragon's Breath is participating alongside the boarding party while simultaneously abstracting and streamlining the NPC contributions.

Sangius
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:04 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Airship Weapons

Postby Sangius » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:43 am

As for the pricing question: Tanks a lot for your calculations, Tattered Rags. We decided for something around 500g after some discussion (10% of a Drakkar's prize) - but our GM generally likes us to work for stuff a bit more than the books might suggest. Mataxes, is there any chance for a preliminary official definition of the prize of a spear thrower?

User avatar
Tattered Rags
Posts: 278
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:44 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Airship Weapons

Postby Tattered Rags » Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:32 pm


Sangius
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:04 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Airship Weapons

Postby Sangius » Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:44 pm

Didn't the Therans dispatch a whole fleet, eventually loosing three behemonths to take one Great Dragon down?

User avatar
Tattered Rags
Posts: 278
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:44 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Airship Weapons

Postby Tattered Rags » Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:43 pm


User avatar
Mataxes
Site Admin
Posts: 907
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:51 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Airship Weapons

Postby Mataxes » Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:59 pm

Prices are a funny thing. What is exorbitant to one group is pocket change to another. They will probably be one of the last things we look at.

(Brief aside: I personally like abstract "wealth" mechanics, rather that tracking every copper. If you have a wealth rating of 5, you can freely purchase anything of cost value 5 or lower. Higher cost items require a test of some kind, or maybe require you to expend some of your wealth, reducing the value. In a system like this it is easier in some ways to control access to things like airships and siege engines while allowing your player characters to be able to purchase other stuff without difficulty.)

One of the ideas ticking my brain is to use the success mechanic to play with damage scaling. Perhaps a fire cannon does +5 damage per extra success instead of +2. This may (in turn) allow airships and the like to have higher damage ratings that make siege weapons effective against them, but pretty resistant to normal character attacks (outside of powerful magic).

The idea of treating them similar to barriers is a good one as well. Perhaps allowing ship/siege weapons to do extra damage per success or some other mechanic that gives them an advantage over standard attacks.
Josh Harrison --
Troubadour and Magic Theorist
Line Developer: Earthdawn

Telarus_KSC
Posts: 744
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:26 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Airship Weapons

Postby Telarus_KSC » Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:51 am

That is a really brilliant idea, and has wheels turning in my head. :ugeek:


[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Return to “Product Discussion”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests