Diplomacy

[freid78]

I'm sorry to open up a topic for that, didn't find any reference to this talent usage in the forum and perhaps my english ain't good enough for me to understand, but this talent/skill doesn't seem to be working properly. Let me explain (p.138).

"The adept mitigates disputes and influences the development of mutual interests" It the adept performing the Diplomacy roll mitigating a dispute between himself and someone else, or is he like a 3rd wheel on a wagon, trying to wedge himself between two opposing parties (Team A vs Team B)?

"[...] by making a Diplomacy test against the negotiating target's Social Defense" If this talent/skill is intented to work for two opposing parties and not on himself, who's target defense is it? Team A or Team B? Because if the talent is used only on Team A, the "mutual interests" doesn't look so mutual is you bend A to accept B.

"If successful, the negotiator's Attitude towards his opponents improves" Ok, now i'm confused. Is the adept the negociator between Team A and Team B? If so, why should we care that Team A or Team B finds the adept more friendly? If not, then who is? Let's say you targeted Team A. So basically, Team A is now more friendly to Team B? So what, the situation is reversed, Team A will now bend Team B more easily? Ok wait, so you need to cast this spell not "against" one of the parties (Team A or Team B) but against the Social Defense of the partie that you wish to win? In other words, you cast the spell not against, but for the target. Can you target yourself? Can you target Team A, and Team B, and finally yourself for a happy "ménage à trois"?

"the use of Diplomacy helps to get the parties working together to approach the matter from a mutual perspective" I wonder how can this be true when you involve magic to bend the other parties, or at least look like your friendly went you might not be. I just want your silvers, but i'll cast Diplomacy on myself to look friendly, so that I can better stab you in the back later on. How about that for a mutual perspective!

Am I reading this talent/skill correctly?

[Mataxes]

Mostly. The goal of Diplomacy is to improve the attitudes of disputing parties towards each other so they can then more easily work out a compromise.

One thing I want to call out here (and in general) is that while all talents are magical, that does not necessarily mean that talents like Diplomacy work some kind of mind-control hoodoo. In some cases the magic involved in a talent relates to how easy it is for an adept to develop their skills.

Look at it this way -- the Diplomacy skill works exactly the same way as the talent. A character with a high rank in (skill) Diplomacy can generally pull off the same kinds of things as an adept with (talent) Diplomacy. It just took the skilled individual longer to get his abilities to that level. No mind control is required. Also, it doesn't do anything but make it easier for the disputing parties to work towards a resolution of their dispute.

Diplomacy is a way for (presumably) neutral party C to get parties A and B talking by improving their attitudes towards each other. It would typically be used multiple times, once on each disputing party to improve their attitude towards the other. The talent could be used to improve the attitude towards the talent/skill user, but again it just improves attitude, maybe making it a little bit easier to get something you want without having to give up so much in return.

With regard to your last point, I could see an unscrupulous individual using Diplomacy (or for that matter, any other socially motivating talent/skill) to get money out of other people. They even exist in our world -- they are called con artists. They tend to make enemies in the long term.

[freid78]

Thanks for the reply.

I have a better understanding of this talent/skill now.

Is it useful? That's another story. Pretty narrow use, and not even actually doing it. So a "facilitator" ability on a very narrow field seems to be a huge legend point lose/dump.

[Mataxes]

[Telarus_KSC]

I can imagine a "fixer" or "Mr. Johnson" type of character (to use the shadowrun terms) finding the Diplomacy talent/skill _very_ usefull. Example: The group of Adepts you've hired bungled the mission, but managed to get away with the mcguffin. They still want to be paid, but your employer is pissed about the fallout. Enter Diplomacy

[earcaraxe]

mataxes said "The talent could be used to improve the attitude towards the talent/skill user, but again it just improves attitude, maybe making it a little bit easier to get something you want without having to give up so much in return." and u both seem to agree, that this talent is of limited use, and u both also seem to agree that its "main use" is mediating between two parties. Right? Please help me understand this.

Im thinking: if this talent can be used when my character is one of the two parties (and you just wrote that), then its on par with conversation, and first impression, isnt it? It "gets the job done" just like those other talents. I mean, those attitude-improvements on one hand can help a lot, on the other hand about the best available talent-based bonii in social situations. So i dont get the apparent devaluation by you. What am i missing?

[Baravakar]