[Ed4] Player's Guide Feedback

[freid78]

Sorry about Keyword invasion. Perhaps it's worth opening a new thread ?

Forge Weapon and Forge Armor (p.148-149) could also take subtypes into consideration. Perhaps it's knack material (like Elemental Forging). Instead of increasing the step damage of a weapon (or armor value on armor), a weaponsmith could give a keyword to the weapon or armor.

I wouldn't put a "pierce" keyword on an axe for example, but rather an elemental keyword : "water-ice", "fire", "air-lightning". For earth and wood, it would simply make the weapon/armor living, meaning it can auto-repair itself.

To do so, it would require the weaponsmith to possess the element needed (like true fire) and perhaps extra successes for the enchantement.

[Telarus_KSC]

[freid78]

Thank you Telarus. I'm not officially a newbie, been around the ED forum from previous edition, but always had a mixed feeling. Most of the time, it was ruled out as a GM call, which is kinda disapointing.

Anyhow, about your comment, I totally get you point... even if I don't agree with it! It's much more about a feeling, because i know the step system is a sound mathematical formula, but tell me if my feeling is wrong on that one :

You have an opponent of 6 Mystic Armor (which is unknown before you cast the spell). So you cast the Chilling Circle spell with a 6pts of cold damage per turn. You basically make 0 damage, every turn, for the duration of the spell. Now, if you had chosen a step 6 instead (D12), you would have probably made 0 damage most of the duration of the spell, but not all of it. And even more, you could actually explode the dice for a massive damage. Even if you just get 1 turn of damage, even if it's only 1pt, you still get better result rolling a step.

What i mean is, for the step / number conversion to make sense, you should roll at least one dice. Having a +3 step on a roll could either be +3 on the result or +3 step and the randomness of exploding dice is still there. But if you kill the entire roll system for a static number, you could end up failling every test. Imagine you have an opponent of 12 Physial Defense and that your Melee Weapon Talent is 10. Would you prefer a static result or to roll the dices?

On another subject, about keywords, have any project for those?

[Panda]

It appears you two are talking about two different things. Hopefully this will clarify:

If your Effect Step is actively doing something (i.e., not acting as a passive resistance, such as Mind Fog), it is being rolled.

[Telarus_KSC]

Oh, yeah.. misunderstood the question. As Panda says, whenever steps are "actively" used, they're always rolled as the dice pool. It's the *modifiers* that you can choose to apply before or after the roll.

The only time in the rules I've seen otherwise is the Optional Rule for "Initiative: Take the Step", where you just use the Step# for mooks/groups (an alternate is rolling once for the whole group).

Hope that clears that up for you, let us know if you have any other mechanical questions.

I do like the idea of a keyword/tag system. Not sure which areas it would be most useful for, though.

Be careful about "stacking" armor, too. Most historical armor already had a layer of padding/cloth/gambeson under the leather, mail, or plates, so it doesn't really make sense to try to combine those 2 layers with another 2 layers - which is what "padded cloth armor" was.. a gambeson and a quilted cloth over-piece. The Meso-Americans actually had much more complex . That could be a step up from padded cloth & padded leather: Layered Cloth Armor (5/2/-1/100sp/25lb/rare). There was also some really interesting "piecemeal armor" rules from the Troll section of the Denizens of Earthdawn Vol 2 book that might be cool with a 4th ed touch. I remember them being a bit fiddly, so could probably use an update.

Speaking of all this armor stuff, I'm planning on running the next game with a twist to the armor rules. If the armor you are wearing has not been fitted to you, there will be an additional -1 Initiative penalty. Assume any competent armor merchant will sell you the best fit and adjust it for you. Also, Weaponsmiths can adjust armor to fit correctly as well (for looted stuff). A Tag works nicely for this, I can note "Poor-Fit: -1 Initiative". Oooh, or even "Custom-Fit: reduce Initiative Penalty by 1" for Masterwork armor (these wouldn't apply to living crystal/blood pebble, i.e. "installed" armors).

[Panda]

Note, house rules aside, there is no armor stacking.

[etherial]

[Mataxes]

That's what I tend to do as well, using one Init roll for a group of identical baddies.

[freid78]

For Telarus

#1 Ok, so there is a problem with the Chilling Circle spell. It's a static damage of circle+4 pts, but extra thread give a step bonus of +2. So basically, it needs to be corrected to give the right info, that is +2 to effect test.

#2 About armor stacking, i understand the issue. That's probably why Obsidiman cannot put all kinds of armor (which is a stupid restriction in my opinion. There's not even a fluff explication for that restriction. Looks like ED 1st all over again with Discipline restriction, except that those had somewhat a plausible fluff story to explain it.) But it seems counter intuitive on so many levels. Blood pebble cannot be stack ? When you look at the picture, it just look like skin. If an Obsidiman can wear an armor, a humain with a blood pebble should also be able to wear one (with living armor restrict if you must.) There is also the cloak issue. Someone cannot wear a cloak and an armor ? Most picture of a Plate mail wearer come with a cloak.

I think, and it's ok if i' alone in that boat, that the armor table and flavor text should be revised entirely. Make it clear that for example all the armor listed are already considered stacked (like it's already written with Plate Armor p.414, the Plate is composed of Chain mail). I would also remove the possibility of cloak in the armor section if you don't want them to stack. Keep the cloaks in the common magic item section (or adventuring equipement)

That being said, i've been working on a system to get some flexibilty and customization (good for weaponsmith) of armors. It include some stuff that i think can adress the problems above, without the easy way out of just removing them, but rather by including them and bunch more in the system. I'll edit this to get the link from the Gamemasters section.

Edit : viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1557

[Razan_GM]

Pictures in most RPG books are made by Artists not specialists of Medieval Fighting Technics, as well as all crated "fantasy stuff" (blood peeble) are not exactly the way they look at pictures.

As for stackable armors from cloaks, im in a reenactment group and fighting with heavy cloak (one that can give you some protection) on your shoulders is simply silly, and if you put it on your back to let you move your arms fast enuff to fight efficiently well you get "armor" on your back only.
Chainmail gives you 7 armor in ED with padding, its not written anywhere but come on you got internet and you can read and think. If you want to stack something, only realistic combination is plate mail with chain mail. That would give you 7 armor if someone hit you in a weak spot like armpit, knee from behind and so on. But also would mean wearing 50 kg, getting hot fast and bad and many many more.

Search for reenactment forums, most of your questions are already answered there.