Illusion talents confusion

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Illusion talents confusion

Postby Sundahk » Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:01 pm

For illusion spells the Sensing Test DN is determined by their Circle per the Sensing Difficulty table.

BUT, some illusion talents seem to have the player make a test to determine the Difficulty Number to see through the illusion magic. So is this essentially the DN for Sensing Tests?

I'm a bit confused because Dead Fall is the only one that references Sensing Tests at all.

Also, Fearsome Charge seems to be the odd one out. It is listed as an illusion, but seems to work more like Frighten or Steely Stare (which aren't illusions, but like FC, require Willpower Tests to shake off the fear effect). How do Sensing Tests work for Fearsome Charge?

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Re: Illusion talents confusion

Postby kosmit » Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:48 pm

I don't think that talents can be sensed or disbelieved same as spells. The illusion in the description is put there just to indicate magic involved. Please correct me if I am wrong :)
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Re: Illusion talents confusion

Postby Razan_GM » Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:31 pm

Some talents have "illusion" in description to help judge what kind of test can be used to end their effectivness.

Conceal Object can be sensed while searching for object but also with Astral Sight which will reveal any parts of object hidden only by illusion. Similar thing wth Disguise Self.

Dead Fall is similar you can use Physician skill or Astral Sight / Life Sight.

Description tells you when you can aply True Sight bonus.

As none of the talents effects affects you phisically than no disbelieving acion can be made. But you always can give few blows to this dead body just for sure.

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Re: Illusion talents confusion

Postby Mataxes » Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:02 pm

Taking a break from GM Guide work to grab a bite to eat.

For the record, I really hate how after the first time an Illusionist uses Dead Fall to get away, from then on it's "We cut off his head to make sure." (Of course, I'm leery of the "Kill 'em all" approach to solving problems with other Namegivers in general.)

The magic of Dead Fall should not have such an easy "out" for victims of the illusion. He's dead. You are convinced he's dead. The magic overrides any desire to "make sure", because it makes you sure.

Not to mention, the talent duration is only rounds.Not exactly the sort of thing that is going to last much beyond the end of a fight. The purpose (as I see it) is to give the user a few moments where attention is likely to be elsewhere so they can catch somebody off guard, or slip away with their head still attached to their shoulders.
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Re: Illusion talents confusion

Postby etherial » Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:13 pm


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Re: Illusion talents confusion

Postby Tattered Rags » Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:35 pm


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Re: Illusion talents confusion

Postby Telarus_KSC » Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:18 pm

Yeah, this came up early in my Earthdawn GM career. Here's how I run it:

Anyone watching with no interest in the state of the "corpse" sees the person or persons affected by Dead Fall arguing in low voices with them-self (or themselves) about whether or not to slit the throat, stab a few more times, "to make sure", etc.

The ones affected by the "compulsion" (anyone who wants to ""make sure" or who is interested in the outcome) hallucinate and actually remember one of them "making sure" while their body or bodies are in the mumbling-stupor talking-about-it state. As the illusion is meant to be a quick deflection, you only need to hallucinate a rounds worth of activity or less, and the Talent only lasts a few rounds, so this paradox quickly goes away. Welcome to Illusionism :D

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Re: Illusion talents confusion

Postby Telarus_KSC » Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:36 pm

More on-topic, looks like most Illusion tagged talents do roll an effect test, which becomes the difficulty to sense and pierce the illusion. This is good to know for those weird situations, like the ones Razam_GM gives.

Keep in mind that when an illusion is "sensed" it then becomes a Figment (i.e. still there and "visible", but a gossamer trick of light with no 'substance'... I usually change the description to have the colors wash out to pale tones, or other "tells").

Here are the illusion tagged talents and their Sensing difficulties:
Conceal Object - Effect Test result.
Dead Fall - Effect Test result.
Disguise Self - Effect Test result.
Fast Hand - Effect Test result.
Fearsome Charge - Free willpower test each round VS Fearsome Charge Step (not rank).
Mimic Voice - Effect Test result.
Stealthy Stride - Effect Test result.

So Fearsome Charge is the odd one out, but I see the logic. You may be making multiple charges against a group, until you hit the max number of targets, and having to track all of those test results would be a pain.

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Re: Illusion talents confusion

Postby daedalron » Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:33 pm


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Re: Illusion talents confusion

Postby etherial » Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:40 pm



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