Disbelieving Illusionist spells in 4th Edition

[Sundahk]

I like the new 4th Edition illusion rules, especially the gamble that comes with disbelieving damaging spells. An Illusionist can really mess with people's minds: "Which Ephemeral Bolt am I going to throw at you next? Real or illusion?" Disbelieving the true version of a spell can really hurt!

However, while some illusion combat spells have a real counterpart (True Ephemeral Bolt, True Missiles) there are others where the real counterpart belongs to another discipline (Illusionists have Phantom Flame while Wizards have Flame Flash; Illusionists have Phantom Lightning and Phantom Fireball while Elementalists cast the real versions of these spells).

So if an Illusionist can't cast the real version of a Fireball (unless they learned it through Versatility or Multi-Disciplining), does this mean their bluff is already called? For example, if you have an Illusionist about to cast Phantom Lightning at you, and you know Illusionists can't learn the true version (Lightning Bolt), won't you just disbelieve every time? I know player characters probably don't know what kind of spells are available to Illusionists (unless there is an Illusionist in the party that can clue them in), but if the players know an Illusionist can't sling a real Lightning Bolt chances are they will say: "My character disbelieves the Lightning Bolt being cast at him!"

Without the possibility of being fried by the true/real version, there seems to be no risk in disbelieving these spells.

I'm probably missing something so please feel free to tell me I'm wrong and why. That way I can have the right answer when I run 4ed for my players

[peterjk3]

If it's a human they couldn't take that chance or let them do that once and then reveal that your character is dual disciplined illusionist/Elementalist. Luckily as gm you don't have to worry about legend cost while building baddies.

[Mataxes]

It's not like the guy comes up with a Nametag reading, "Hi! I'm an Illusionist!"

[Panda]

This was actually an item which there were numerous, specific requests to have: illusion versions of other disciplines' combat spells. The reason you will actually want these spells is if your opponents do not know your are an Illusionist. Starting off a conflict with Phantom Fireball and/or Phantom Lightning should give opponents the impression you are an Elementalist and have little to no reason to even consider disbelieving the spells. Like all illusions, there can be sensing tests from interacting with the spells which clue the target in (after the fact) to the true nature of the spell. This just means they shouldn't rely exclusively on the phantom spells either; it just takes one person to figure it out and then those spells won't be so effective. Unless, of course, you can cast a real Fireball and sling it after the jig is up when everyone is disbelieving you.

When there is an Illusionist at the table, to maintain the same level of ignorance an NPC would realistically have, I give them identical seeming cards. One says "true" the other "illusion". When they cast a spell which could be disbelieved, they place one of the cards face down. Then I have to decide how the targets react. Afterwards, it is flipped up and results resolved as normal. This prevents any cheating on my part as the GM. I also have my own set for reversed situations. I suspect many people may already do this.

[Kasbak]

The cards are a really good idea. I haven't yet had an Illusionist in any of my games (I did have a Human Thief pick it up via Versatility, but he didn't develop it before the campaign died off due to moving), but I'll have to remember that one.

While IMB I do play the different schools of magic having certain symbols common to their Disciplined that are embroidered on their robes, one needs to be a magician or have studied spellcasting Disciplines in some way to be familiar with them. Also, it's not out of the question for an Illusionist to create an illusion that changes that appearance, so even that sign can be a false lead and tie into the deception. Heck, they don't even have to wear robes since armor doesn't hinder spellcasting in Earthdawn. Tricksters that Illusionists are, they can figure out a way to fool an opponent to thinking they're of another Discipline.

[Harlequin]

And let's not forget that Illusionists can also rely on False Sight to boost their illusions, and they get it at 1st Circle un 4th edition.
Then again, when I played an Illusionist, I used to quote Morpheus from The Matrix all the time saying :
What is real? How do you define 'real'? If you're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals (replace electrical signals with patterns) interpreted by your brain.

[Telarus_KSC]

I agree with all of this, and yes Illusionists in Earthdawn are quite unique in the genre. One of my favorite NPCs to run was an eastern orc martial artist Illusionist.

Having these Elementalist spells as opening gambits is a really good move. I've also given NPC illusionists things like Crystal Spell Boxes (which can capture enemy spells), so you NEVER KNOW, they may just have one real one stashed at their belt.

[Sundahk]