Weaponsmith & Conversation

Discussion on the Earthdawn game line, errata, and feedback not related to playing or GMing.
Baravakar
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Weaponsmith & Conversation

Postby Baravakar » Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:21 pm


earcaraxe
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Re: Weaponsmith & Conversation

Postby earcaraxe » Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:47 pm

i can imagine weaponsmiths having the role of some kind of center of the community.

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Re: Weaponsmith & Conversation

Postby Baravakar » Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:02 pm

I can understand that in general weaponsmiths do have to interact with clients when selling their services but, as player's character I still see conversation as a choice and not a requirement.

Personally I am very fond of games where you get the opportunity to make things. Crafting. The weaponsmith's abilities along with the new magicians ability of Patterncraft seem to fit this niche.

When choosing how to advance a weaponsmith, it should be the player's choice if they want to take a social talent. But from this chart there is no choice here, you must take Conversation and increase it every circle thereafter, to improve your character. I just don't see that.

In my campaign, we have a weaponsmith. He is a dwarf, go fig. The character is a cantankerous curmudgeon, who generally dislikes everyone who is not at least a dwarf. This character would never choose conversation as a talent. This is the farthest thing from the way he plays.

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Re: Weaponsmith & Conversation

Postby etherial » Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:21 pm


Baravakar
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Re: Weaponsmith & Conversation

Postby Baravakar » Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:33 pm

Thanks that was very helpful.

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Panda
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Re: Weaponsmith & Conversation

Postby Panda » Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:49 am

The information supplied by earcaraxe and etherial is correct.

To provide some added value, let's look at your specific situation: a grumpy dwarf who is also a Weaponsmith.

The pragmatic solution is to exchange Conversation for a different talent. However, this creates a slippery slope (does everyone get to exchange talents they don't like?) and is rather dull.

There are alternatives which maintain setting fidelity and explore more interesting avenues, particularly with regard to how they interact with their discipline and grow as a character. Within the setting, Weaponsmiths are a very traditional discipline who submit to councils of their elders for advancement. They are highly regarded by others because of the high standards to which they hold themselves.

Given the rest of the setting has a particular view on what a Weaponsmith is and the role they fulfill, it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for NPCs to approach the adept with problems to solve. Even if their advice must be pried from them, they still want to maintain the community. For a good example in pop culture, I think Ron Swanson of Parks and Recreation makes a fine contemporary Weaponsmith. He even has a talent crisis when Tammy shows up.

This situation can be played for both humor and as drama. It can give the player a chance to show different sides of their character. To explore why they are that way. In other settings, it may be considered a, archetypal dwarf trait, but this isn't the case in the very cosmopolitan Barsaive where dwarfs are more Athenian in their culture.

For a more brutal take, there is interaction with a council of elders when seeking to advance, or permission to start a Heartblade. They may question the adept's understanding of their discipline and if they understand their own heart. This can make for some powerful gaming, but it can also make the real person very upset.

Most importantly, it is your game and you should do with it as you please. Hopefully this is helpful.
Earthdawn Developer and I have a gaming , though, let's face it, it is really an Earthdawn blog which also happens to have some reviews.

Baravakar
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Re: Weaponsmith & Conversation

Postby Baravakar » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:12 pm

It seems to me that low circle Weaponsmiths would not be the person a town would go to for advice, they would higher circle (more established) one.

A lower circle Weaponsmith needs to establish himself and to create a customer base. So, at second circle they should receive Haggle and not Conversation. Haggle has always their discipline talent from the first edition of the rules. Now you list it as an option for the character and replace it with Conversation. I understand that Conversation is more versatile, but for me it does not fit the role of a starting smith.

A smith must spend hours of dedication and concentration to work the forge and create items. They can't be holding extended conversations, while performing these duties. This talent contradicts all of their other abilities, not enhances them. Haggle enhances what a first or second circle Weaponsmith needs to do to further his career.

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Re: Weaponsmith & Conversation

Postby Panda » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:54 pm

By this logic Weaponsmiths have no business ever leaving town. If all they are interested in is crafting things and creating a customer base, it's not Conversation which is problematic, but Lion Heart, Melee Weapons, Spot Armor Flaw, Steel Thought, Temper Flesh, and Wound Balance. These talents provide no value for crafting, establishing a customer base, and generally never leaving their forge as they pursue a career.

Which is all fine and good if every Weaponsmith is a merchant who was an 8 to 5 job and is part (maybe even head, dare to dream) of the local chamber of commerce. However, this doesn't apply to all Weaponsmiths. Some may want to play with money, which means Haggle can be theirs as early as first circle. Others may have no particular interest in money whatsoever. Those who go adventuring seem to frequently fall into the latter category rather than the former based on playtesting.

Conversation can be used while working and using the Forge talents. Questions around this have previously come up and the use of those talents does not prevent a Weaponsmith from the normal functioning of a forge. Talking with people while working with your hands is so common as to be taken for granted. Beyond this, it is still useful outside of work where creating those community bonds over some spirits at the local tavern come into play.
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Re: Weaponsmith & Conversation

Postby Roth » Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:25 am

Why has every Weaponsmith suddenly become gregarious?

Why such a narrow interpretation of Weaponsmiths?

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Re: Weaponsmith & Conversation

Postby Lys » Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:06 am

Being skilled at communicating and being gregarious are not the same thing. Some people with ranks in conversation use it to engage others and hold them enthralled with their presence, others use it to try and convince others to adopt their opinions, and still others use it to communicate clearly with few words and gestures. A dour man who doesn't talk much, yet makes every word count when he chooses to utter them, is a valid way to roleplay high conversation skill.


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