GM's Guide -- Anything you would like to see?

[Notaure]

if possible, i would like to see more clear rules about the (possibles) interactions between the different type of magical object.
i'll try to be clear:
what's going on if a group true pattern item is enchanting?
what's going on if a pattern item become a group true pattern (the choice of the player)?
could a magic item or a legendary magic item be enchanting?
is a legendary magic item autamaticcaly the pattern item of it's legendary's owner?
could a legendary magic item become a pattern item for a player?
etc...
I feel always inconfortable with my players when they ask me for precisions on that subject...

[Panda]

[Mataxes]

Morgan's answers are the easiest way to rule... but I don't agree 100% with them. That said, I also don't have a problem with them per se.

As he says, this kind of thing is one of the more nuanced and subtle aspects of Earthdawn magic theory. A more thorough exploration of the interactions involved is beyond the scope of the basic rulebooks because of the space it would require (among other things).

I view magical items as existing along a continuum, rather than being sorted into distinct boxes. To borrow an example, it's kind of like astronomical objects. It's generally easy to tell the difference between a star and a planet, but when you get to the edges of certain categories, things can get fuzzy and arbitrary (for example, brown dwarfs aren't stars or planets but have traits of each, or the planet/dwarf planet division that moved Pluto into its own category with other Kuiper belt objects and larger asteroids like Ceres).

So, I don't have a conceptual problem with an object being somebody's pattern item and a "common" magic item, or even (potentially) being a pattern item for two different things -- it's likely to be rare, but the Heartblade example shows that it is possible for such exceptions to exist.

My quick answer is, if you want to have an item that serves dual purposes... the way it works will depend on how it is being used. For example, a thread item could, in my mind, also serve as somebody's pattern item.

Thread items are more broadly useful, but can only be used in a particular way (giving specific bonuses to specific things but applicable for all uses of that thing).

A pattern item is more flexible (it can provide varied bonuses based on what the user wants), but it is only applicable for interactions with a specific pattern.

That's a quick-and-dirty example, but there's a lot more potentially involved, and a lot more potential danger and weirdness that could come into play. While pattern magic is largely predictable in its applications, remember that nobody is really sure what generates a pattern item, it's more a matter of probability.

If there is a major pattern item, it is likely to have these traits...

You get the idea.

To try and wrap up (because I could go on like this for hours)... in my opinion the interaction between different types of pattern magic is largely not going to make much of a difference. It's only the more powerful or significant items (like a Heartblade) where the weirdness and crossover is likely to appear, and I think if a character is going to deliberately play with those sorts of interactions.... well, there's a lot of potential grief that can come of it, and a lot of potential story as well.

[etherial]

[Panda]

[Notaure]

[Panda]

The clearest way to present all of the information as factual is as follows:

There are some models for the metaphysics of Earthdawn. Most of the time they work. However, there are cases where the models don't match reality. This is very similar to the interactions of classical and quantum physics. Some pieces simply don't make sense.

The guidelines I provided are quick and dirty based on distilling things from the text which it won't come right out and say. The specific passages you are interested in from the 3E Player's Guide are on pg. 105, "Each True pattern represents only one specific person, place, or thing. Likewise, each person, place, or thing can only have one True pattern," pg. 106, Magical Items side bar, "While pattern items does not have a True pattern of its own, it is magical due to the special connection it has with the True pattern of a specific person or place," and "[Thread items] have True patterns that belong solely to themselves."

There are some other bits of interest, but those are the primary passages to stitch together the guidelines. Everything is, of course, subject to how you want to run your game. This naturally trumps anything the text may suggest.

[Slimcreeper]

It just is a really complex set of rules. Because it is so nuanced, there is going to be house ruling required. It's like baking. Sure there are recipes and predictable chemical reactions and all, but even very knowledgeable bakers wing it and problem solve on the fly when the batter isn't quite right or the oven doesn't seem to be baking evenly. And since we are basically talking about a bunch of stuff that a bunch of people made up over a couple of decades, it's not going to hang together perfectly and that is okay. After all, even Mataxes and Panda don't agree 100%, but I'm sure they run fantastic games regardless.

[earcaraxe]

its certainly too late (and might not be the most fitting thread for the topic), but (when im GMing and also when playing) listing the spells foremost by discipline (and not alphabetically) is much more comfortable, than alphabetically, ED3 style.

i would rather have the spells from the same circle in one place when deciding which one to learn for my new circle, or when i want to get a quick picture what my NPC can use.

[Panda]