GM's Guide -- Anything you would like to see?

Discussion on the Earthdawn game line, errata, and feedback not related to playing or GMing.
Marceli
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Re: GM's Guide -- Anything you would like to see?

Postby Marceli » Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:48 pm

Heretikzer0:

It is all great but only if you have knowledge and intelligence advantage. Also it need time to prepare. It is just static fight, and with such we do not have much problem with stupid monster.
You party go from city to city and in jungle is surprised by skeorx, what kind of smart plan you can think ? It is raw power compare, i personally hate such ambush but Barsaive is not peaceful and forgiving land. What i was complain at start is to many STRAIN damage talent around, i have one fight with Zero hit from monster and got almost unconscious from it. And if i do not do it at my maximum spent we will probably lose as ravaging monster was such strong. What i would like to see in Gamemaster is some kind of alternative rules to strain damage and some mechanics to making monster less stat depend.

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Re: GM's Guide -- Anything you would like to see?

Postby Utsukushi » Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:06 pm

Hmm... actually, one thought does come to mind about this. I like Strain -- but it occurs to me that so far, it's been very... one-sided. Eg., People have it, but Creatures pretty much don't.

I'm a strong supporter of the idea that there are choices to be made, and Strain helps to shape that. I had a lovely duel between two Swordmasters that mine won mostly because.. well, the other guy was doing Air Dance (Versatility) and Second Weapon (Skill) every round, and took care of half his health for me. Taking Strain for effects like Second Attack is a fantastic choice -- sometimes it's worth it, and sometimes it's not. When two Adepts fight, those choices are being made on both sides. When Adepts fight Creatures, though, only the Adepts are affected by any of that.

Now, in a game context, that's never going to fully balance, because there's always the point that PCs are expected to go on, while, often, their opponents really only exist for This Fight anyway. So an NPC Adept, for instance, can actually afford to burn Strain a little more freely than a PC one can, simply because, well, they're... more expendable. I mean, they might not say so, but let's face it; the GM probably cares less about Scorcher #4 than the player does about her character.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is, as long as the GM Guide is still being written -- adding in costs to at least some Creature Abilities would actually, I think, balance things better than taking them away from character-abilities. And, as has been noted often; counting things like Strain really isn't heavy bookkeeping. It's more on the "tick-mark" level -- you generally just sort of tack it on to whatever else is happening. And a *lot* of Creature Abilities would make sense to cause Strain.

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Heretikzer0
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Re: GM's Guide -- Anything you would like to see?

Postby Heretikzer0 » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:04 am

Given the situation you propose, I'd likely have countered it before it became a problem. Let me pick it apart, and then offer you an similar but alternate idea.

1. Travelling through a high risk unforgiving area, and a group being unprepared for a single surprise attack from a Skeorx? In a combat where there is 1 versus many, the 1 is almost ALWAYS at a serious disadvantage, even from surprise. They may do some serious harm to one character (perhaps even kill one), but that's the risk of surprise in every situation. A Skeorx is a pretty fierce opponent on paper. But if that Skeorx is too high a risk, then I suggest air travel.

2. They are resistant to Dominate Beast, but not immune. I look at that in the way its presented in the book, the same way I look at bullet resistant vests. They are resistant, but you can still be knocked clear out of your boots. Resistances - to me is just a counter to weed out adventurers with weak scores. For instance, the 5th circle Beastmaster I currently GM for went up against a 'resistant' Jungle Griffon. She played her hand and rolled so well consistantly through Animal Bond and Dominate Beast that the Griffon may as well just rolled over and offered its belly right there.

3. If you must travel through monster infested areas in general, then you should be prepared for death at any moment. That's just the simple truth of it. Barsaive and beyond may be a unforgiving place, but that does not mean you should run headlong into the unforgiving casually.

4. As someone who's suffered multiple instant deaths in games before that are unforgiving, I see them as being particularly anticlimactic in a role play sense. I believe that if an adventurer is to die horribly, then that death has to have some sort of meaning. I've seen angered players storm away from tables because they evolved characters over months/years only to be ganked by the two step goodbye. That's no way to kill off a character that meant something. If I were GM'ing that encounter with the Skeorx, the first to die would be one of the party member's pack animals, or a horse first. Skeorx are large and bulky and are not presented in a context to suggest they are particularly fond of ambush or stalking tactics. They have no stealth score, so you fall back on their Dex (Step 14 in creatures of Barsaive). To me, that's kinda mediocre. If the party has no idea of what a Skeorx is capable of, then I'd set up the encounter to give them an opportunity to see how grisly it could be. On the chance that they are seasoned Circle 6+ adepts, then a single Skeorx is not really a fearsome foe.

5. Its only a raw power compare if you let it be. You have options, even before a surprise situation unfolds. If you have characters in your party that do not think of their own mortality, then my suggestion would be to give them reasons to be. Lets take it out of the Jungle and go to Kratas, where you can be backstabbed by every beggar in the bazaar. What difference then does a single Skeorx make? Your players should already be thinking this is a very real possibility given the location. In situations like this, the best thing you can do is to find ways to make yourself LESS of a possible target. Camouflage, stealth, guides, knowledge of the city/jungle/kaer layout. Do your players do the same thing during Kaer exploration? Just run around in the dark and hope they don't run into anything bigger than they? Talk to a Travelled Scholar, Troubadour, or other local. Chances are they have life experience that may prove invaluable. Think deeper into your encounters. I try to apply a certain level of logic them, rather than just create a situation from nothing. Also, storytelling comes into play. Why is the Skeorx there? Is it just about violence, or is it protecting its young? Was it chased into the camp by something larger? Was it chasing something else into the camp? Think deeper into it. I've been playing RPG's for over 30 years and I know not everyone creates reasons and causalities for things. I've walked away from campaigns where things like that didn't make sense, or had any cues. Worse yet, are GM's that use a game system just to murder players. I'm not even sure why players would even attend those kind of games. I'm not accusing you of anything, but I'd challenge any GM or player to really dig when situations seem hopeless. You might slow down a game in those instances, but I'll warrant you will encourage the life-span of the game itself. :cheerleader:

5. Play the game, don't let the game play you. It'll make a vital difference in how players approach your style. Also, magic. Magicians can summon allies and create perimeter alarms and wards. Any party worth its salt needs to have some sort of magical component to it.

You have options, always. Sometimes the options needs to be engaged before problems arise.
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Re: GM's Guide -- Anything you would like to see?

Postby Heretikzer0 » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:04 am

Addressing the idea of strain.

I'm glad to have it, if I need it. I'd rather have those options, then not.
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Re: GM's Guide -- Anything you would like to see?

Postby Qui_Revient_de_Loin » Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:59 am

Another Earthdawn french fan :) and not fluent in english...
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Heretikzer0
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Re: GM's Guide -- Anything you would like to see?

Postby Heretikzer0 » Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:49 am

Horrors are particularly tricky. I find that if I do throw a horror into a campaign, I really need to break it down and follow its set of logical patterns. One of the scariest freaking horrors to me is Yrsthgrathe. He is not particularly tough to kill in a fight compared to others of his caliber. However, Yrsthgrathe has so many resources, and perfectly lunatic and cunningly laid motivations that I have seen it completely take over a game that wasn't focused upon it, or hunting horrors at all.

I decided that it was just too malicious a creature in my hands. From a storytelling perspective you can do a lot with it, but using it to its full potential is like dropping the A-bomb in a campaign. I've had to water some of the other ones down in order for them to be useable as content material as well. The lesser horrors and horror constructs are far simpler and more robotic, which makes them good cats paws in most situations.
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Re: GM's Guide -- Anything you would like to see?

Postby Qui_Revient_de_Loin » Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:59 am

Yeah, i fear the Betrayer in my Blade of Carah Fadh/Prelud to war campaign :(
Another Earthdawn french fan :) and not fluent in english...
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Re: GM's Guide -- Anything you would like to see?

Postby kosmit » Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:55 pm

Hmmm... Quick thought: more common magic items and potions, generaly more gear with prices (medicines, poisons etc.).
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Heretikzer0
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Re: GM's Guide -- Anything you would like to see?

Postby Heretikzer0 » Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:54 pm

I'm with Kosmit on that, and some structure on how these things are actually made. :) That would be lovely.
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Marceli
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Re: GM's Guide -- Anything you would like to see?

Postby Marceli » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:06 am

Heretikzer0: It was in 1 edition magic book, AFAIR
Half magic with kernels for elemental(weaponsmith and elemntalist), bloof magic, potions -> nethermancer(or alchemy). I would like to see again rules for novice/journeymen thread items.

And i second for more items too.


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