Let's Talk About Forge

[Panda]

A forge only being able to support one Weaponsmith at a time isn't something that I have ever used. My base assumptions have always been that multiple smiths can be working at the same time. Between extra space to support growth and apprentices, in addition to working around each other.

Weaponsmiths looking to borrow some space would get the option of paying by cash, spending extra time working on projects for the forge, or in smaller communities working around the town. The last one was often accomplished by the rest of the group during their downtime.

It is interesting to see the different assumptions that are out there.

[Kasbak]

Agreed. Even my simple garage shop at home could support at least one other person working either on the same project with me or on a different project using different equipment. A professional shop will be much, much larger, and given the transient nature of many Adepts will probably be planned out with extra work space to rent out as a means of supplemental income.

[FreeBooter]

Replying to the article, rather than any particular previous poster here.

I liked the ED3 rules for Forge Weapon/Forge Armor because of the limits to how much a weapon could be forged, especially with the first rank of Thread Weapons/Armor usually giving a "fully forged" damage/armor value. This ensured that the best weapons and best armor around were (almost) always the Threaded ones. Thread Items are interesting, while a generic "forged +8" weapon is kind of boring. The way I see it, removing the limit and making Thread Items "forgeable" makes Thread Items, one of the unique and awesome features of Earthdawn, less awesome. Less awesome is not good. I want more awesome!

I do agree the Weaponsmith needs some work, though. My suggestion for the Forge talents would be to instead make them even more useful in the creation of Thread Weapons and Thread Armor. Also, to make the Weaponsmith more interesting "in the field", Infuse Weapon and Infuse Armor could instead be moved to significantly lower Circles. They add one more interesting thing to do, and a way for the Weaponsmith to give a group of adepts an edge (pun intended) "in the field".

Just my 0.02 SEK.

[Tattered Rags]

[Lys]

[FreeBooter]

[Slimcreeper]

This is maybe too simple of a solution, but why not simply add the thread rank to the damage step?

[FreeBooter]

[Utsukushi]

It seems to me that the problem lies in the "Maintenance" part. A week here and there for improving a new weapon seems totally reasonable and gives the GM some control over how fast that happens, which is important; two months out of every year spent just to avoid having to start over from scratch, on the other hand, is irritating at best and shuts short-lived races like Orks and Trolls out of the game at worst. (Unless we want to give Earthdawn legacy mechanics, I suppose. Anyone? I am *not* a troublemaker! ...OK, maybe a little bit.)

Just cutting the time down makes fair sense inside the Talent, I think -- once the Ritual is done, I'm not sure it would need a full reenactment just to renew it. The pattern of the magic is already shaped into the pattern of the item, after all; the Weaponsmith just has to shore it up a little; unfray the edges. But if it's too easy to do, that brings back the question of why every weapon isn't at least 5x Forged, and why Throal's Army in particular hasn't flooded the market with perfectly Forged swords.

So - I kind of mentioned this way back at start as just something I liked, but as this discussion goes on I keep thinking about it. What about giving Forgings a Blood Magic aspect? It makes the maintenance automatic - as long as the Weaponsmith is alive, they just have to still want to. This makes PC-Weaponsmiths especially helpful to have, because of course they'll maintain the most important Forgings for their own party; but it's not critical, because as long as you can stop by your chosen Weaponsmith and drop off your annual payment, she'll keep it going for you.

Improving an established Forging (eg, going from +3 to +4) might be fair to make a little easier, too; maybe a day for every two points already Forged into the weapon, as it gets gradually harder to improve... bringing it back up to a full week when you've got it up to +13, but making it easier for beginning parties to get their first few plusses going.

The full week-long Ritual would be necessary to start Forging a new weapon (that first +1), or to transfer the Forging to a different Weaponsmith (who could then Maintain the blood cost -- so if your Weaponsmith dies, you have until the end of the YAAD to find a new one and have them take over the Ritual). It gives the GMs a bit more control over that, too... a town Weaponsmith might be available for the time, but already be maintaining as many Forgings as they care to. Maybe they'd be willing to take on one more at double the normal cost, but seriously, they can't spare much more blood.

It's still viable for Adventuring Weaponsmiths, because they'll be sacrificing a handful of Blood Points to it. There might even be a Knack later that makes it possible to transfer this cost to the wielder, instead, letting parties share the pain, and making it so that the Swordmaster who wants Forgings held on both his swords and his dagger and his backup sword and, oh, right, his armor too please... can shoulder that burden himself.

And it eliminates the "Fully Forged Armies" problem, because any given Weaponsmith can really only maintain a dozen or so weapons, tops, even if they're seriously dedicated to it. A solid core of Weaponsmiths (such as Throal can probably claim) could keep Forged weapons for their upper officers, and maybe a couple special units, but hardly their full military force. A Scorcher band might keep a Weaponsmith back home that they're bleeding almost dry for it -- making it a plot device, where one step to defeating the band might be finding this Weaponsmith and either rescuing or killing them (easy enough, since they're only a couple points from Unconsciousness at the best of times...) The possible Knack doesn't really change that balance, since Knacks are inherently rare, and would have to be performed individually for each person.. something a high-Circle Weaponsmith might do with their own teammates, but still isn't feasible for every rank-and-file solider in an army.

[Slimcreeper]

How much of a blood cost are you thinking here? I kind of like the fighter bearing the cost - it must be quenched in the blood of the one who would wield it. Also makes them less lootable. Of course, we are talking about dramatically decreasing how hard the average weapon in Baraive hits, which changes a lot of dynamics. It could also create a situation where dozens of high-circle adepts are very motivated to protect a given weapon smith, for good or ill.