Let's Talk About Forge

[etherial]

[LouProsperi]

Hello,

I think one of the interesting ideas in this discussion is the assumption that Forge Blade/Armor is the weaponsmith's "core" ability. I disagree with this. I think it's a cool and significant ability, but I don't think it's the core of the discipline. I can imagine there are weaponsmiths in Barsaive who only use this ability rarely.

I think if there is a "core" weaponsmith ability, it's Weapon History. I know some people may feel that Item History can supplant the need for this talent, but I still consider it to be *the* core of the weaponsmith discipline.


Thanks!

Lou

[Antra]

[Dougansf]

Which brings up the point I thought of in response to etherial's post.

Many of the other party members should be doing research (of one kind or another) during significant down time while the Weaponsmith is forging. Item/Weapon history and Research are great [s]time sinks[/s] resources that are very important to any game, if not very exciting.

The problem I ran into with my Weaponsmith PC is that he was the source of Forge Weapon and Item History for the group.

[Utsukushi]

[Flowswithdrek]

Apologies in advance, but this post turned into a rant


Most of the debates about Weaponsmiths seem to boil down to the whole forge weapon/armour thing or how they are only a support discipline to buff weapons and generally be mediocre at combat. Regardless of how you swap out talents or at what circle they become available at I don’t think this changes how many people view the Weaponsmith, which for me is the real issue.

I think the Weaponsmith gets viewed as a support character for a number of reasons, and the main one is the artwork. Look at the picture of the Weaponsmith in the Disciplines section, it’s pretty bland (isn’t it?) and doesn’t shout out ‘Play Me, Play Me.’ In fact it says ‘Pass me by, I’m about to make a gate hinge.’ Some of the other discipline’s artwork isn’t that exciting either, though the Swordmaster at least looks interesting, a character of action.

To me Forge Armour/Weapon is something that the Weaponsmith should be able to do, but not what should drive the discipline. If the Weaponsmith is adventuring then there should be a reason for that. I mean, why bother leaving the forge? There was so much lost to the Scourge that still needs to be reclaimed, including knowledge and ancient artefacts, and the secrets of their construction and how to wield them etc. To me this should be one of the main focuses of the Weaponsmith. The Weaponsmith shouldn’t be the character that tells you all about the magical weapon you just uncovered and then buffs your blade before you go out to carve up some legend points from the hide of some exotic beast so you can weave a thread to the weapon. The Weaponsmith should be searching out and wielding some of these great artefacts and using their powers to do interesting and exciting things, in combat or otherwise.

The description of the Weaponsmith says it draws on Elementalism and Wizardry. When was the last time anyone seen a Weaponsmith do anything that remotely made you think the Weaponsmith was as cool as a Wizard or Elementalist? I think the Weaponsmith could be a whole lot cooler and even if the mechanics don’t focus on or support that, I think just looking at the Weaponsmith from a different angle couldn’t hurt.

A Weaponsmith is a very specific discipline. You can throw many of the disciplines into just about any published adventure, and they will excel, but often the Weaponsmith struggles. The Weaponsmith character needs that bit extra to drive them, they need to be the ones saying ‘Hey guys, my discipline’s teachings tell of the legendary blade of [Insert Awesome Name], and I think I’ve worked out where to find it, however I need some help. Help me retrieve this ancient weapon and I can promise you that I will reforge your weapons so they are fit to be wielded by Heroes.’

[Mountainshadow]

Great way to look at the weaponsmith discipline!

[Tattered Rags]

Indiana Jones model of Weaponsmith?

[Tattered Rags]

I am probably the person on these boards that has played the game the least and has the most time since he last played. I stopped playing before FASA stopped publishing books, and, even then, I didn't play all that much. That said, I never saw anyone play as a Weaponsmith, and personally I always got the impression that they were boring and slow to play. It seems that many others have a similar view.

But, as I've begun thinking about it and reading this great discussion, I have realized just how great they actually can be. The Discipline is supposed to be "boring". They are the stolid core of many villages; their Discipline teaches impassiveness and focus. Everyone goes to them for mediation because they know that the Weaponsmith will be evenhanded and fair and won't get distracted by petty things.

That said, it's boring. But it's a great base to play from, if the Talents support it. They have intense focus, so perhaps early Talents can let them build up momentum as they attack a single goal (whether it's Forging or an enemy). One example would be adding +1 to hit (or damage) for every round they focus on attacking only 1 enemy; any change, such as using Total Defense or choosing not to immediately run after that enemy if it flees out of range, would cancel the momentum benefit. I would even say using something like Avoid Blow (multi-Discpline, right?) or talking about a different enemy could cancel it. Impassiveness leans towards being unmovable: a solid defensive capability. I think they already have some of that (Steel Though?).

But I've also thought of another idea which plays off the idea of Weaponsmiths having intense focus. A high-Circle Talent, let's call it "Multi-Tasking" for simplicity, which allows them to bring to bear their concentration on multiple tasks. I imagine two possible variations. The first would be applicable to longer projects, such as Forging or Research (at least reading). When the Weaponsmith uses the Talent, he literally works on multiple things at the same time. I picture someone walking into the forge and seeing shades of the Weaponsmith all over, pounding on a blade, reading a book, etc., flitting into and out of clarity, intensifying quickly and then immediately fading into the background as other images of the Weaponsmith come into focus. Perhaps if someone wishes to talk with him, he could pause ALL work and talk. This would have to be something where it is limited to a single, small room and no Multi-Tasking could take him outside of it. So if he runs out of books to read, he will have to stop everything else to go get more or stop researching. This would allow a single, high-Circle Weaponsmith to work on the entire party's blades at the same time, but it could still be limited in only allowing X number of tasks at once. Both the Circle requirement and number of tasks limitation would serve to prevent a bunch of highly forged weapons flooding the market. (This is also a very "Wizardly" thing, if I do say so myself.)

The second variation for "Multi-Tasking" would be useful on short time frame objectives, like combat. The same imagery as above, but now the Weaponsmith is seen attacking two different enemies. Arguably, this is easy to make overpowered. Additionally, I'm not sold on it fitting the image of the Weaponsmith as well as the first variation.

Both variations would have to be exclusive to the momentum idea above. So, I would actually say the intense focus of a Weaponsmith lends to combat through momentum building and to research and Forging through a multiplicative effect. Early on the momentum building helps with Forging (as you get a bonus the second week, for example), but later on it's strictly short-term activities as suddenly you're able to do a dozen long-term things at once.

Play with these ideas. I'd love to hear anything this sparked in others.

[Slimcreeper]

How about something a little less mystical at lower levels, where a weapon smith can direct the work of lower-level adepts to assist. The highest ranking weapon smith makes all tests and is totally in charge, but together the forge can work a number of weapons equal to the number of assistants.

There is another word I want to use instead of 'assistant', but my brain is tired.

It would be interesting to see them have a talent that would make them extremely convincing if they believe they are telling the truth. Rank + charisma, allow karma, DN = Soc.D + number of targets after the first. The adept must be telling the truth and cannot be trying to deliberately deceive the target. There is no duration, or any compunction to act on the information; the targets simply know that the weapon smith is telling the truth. The targets know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the word of the weapon smith has been given, and the weapon smith is telling the truth.