Let's Talk About Forge

Discussion on the Earthdawn game line, errata, and feedback not related to playing or GMing.
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Mataxes
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Re: Let's Talk About Forge

Postby Mataxes » Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:52 am

The problem with a permanent forge boost is that it radically changes the effective damage step of weapons across the board, which has some pretty serious implications when it comes to setting economy--when you have a situation like the Kingdom of Throal equipping all of their soldiers with fully forged broadswords (which was the case according to the ED1 Throal sourcebook)... that's a significant technological and military advantage, not to mention a huge investment of time and other resources.

The balance that needs to be struck is one between playability and verisimilitude of the setting. It is probably going to be fairly easy for high ranking or wealthy individuals to have a weapon that offers a few steps bonus damage -- given the bonus is based on number of successes (not just +1 for use), seeing a weapon end up with +3 or +4 after a week or two of work by a skilled Weaponsmith doesn't seem too radical a notion, or something that would be too unbalancing from an overall setting perspective.

I mean, if bookkeeping and tracking time is something that doesn't play a large part in your game, I think it's safe to ignore it. If you want to play with the times so that a PC Weaponsmith in your group is able to maintain the bonus on his companion's weapons, you can do that -- but remember that means that NPCs can do it to, and that can have knock-on effects if you extrapolate out from there.

The setting needs to have certain assumptions and conditions in order to keep things sane from a big picture standpoint. Weapons that deal higher than normal damage will typically be +1 to +4 higher, and the property of high ranking and wealthy individuals who can afford to maintain them. This puts them on par with the typical damage bonus provided by thread items, which have the advantage of a) being permanent and b) providing bonuses to other things besides damage.
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Re: Let's Talk About Forge

Postby Panda » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:23 am

The biggest issues for permanent Forge Armor/Weapon bonuses are related to Thread Items. For the most part, a damage bonus from Forge Weapon is equivalent to the damage bonus that a Thread rank would give, except the latter is a permanent bonus and the former temporary and significantly more accessible. It makes the effort of crafting a thread item, or the legend behind the thread item seem less special if it can be much more easily obtained with the same efficacy as just a standard forging.

As well, it also introduces the issue of permanent Forge Weapon uses on a thread weapon. If you find a legendary pre-Scourge sword from Zinta of Landis, why doesn't it come pre-Forged as high as this hero of note and everyone that came afterwards could stack on there?

If introduced to high enough Circle chracters, it probably won't be an issue, but if you want to introduce it to lower Circle characters to further a plot, that can create a balance issue where it's basic capabilities (without threads attached) far outstrip what would normally be available.Thread items get around these problems through Key knowledge and Thread Weaving requirements, but Forgings have no such restrictions.
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Re: Let's Talk About Forge

Postby Henghyoke » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:59 am

So, Forge Weapon and presumably Forge Armor are no longer available as skills? If not, how do mundane weaponsmiths improve weapons/armor? (I guess they don't?)
Last edited by Henghyoke on Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Let's Talk About Forge

Postby Telarus_KSC » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:06 pm

Can we assume that high Circle Weaponsmiths gain access to the Enchanting rules (and some Elementalist magic) at higher circles, like in the earlier editions? That's where the permanent bonuses would come in.

Were Forge Weapon/Armor available as skills in an earlier edition? I'm at work without my books, atm.

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Re: Let's Talk About Forge

Postby Henghyoke » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:21 pm

Last edited by Henghyoke on Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:50 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Let's Talk About Forge

Postby etherial » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:23 pm


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Re: Let's Talk About Forge

Postby Tattered Rags » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:29 pm


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Re: Let's Talk About Forge

Postby etherial » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:48 pm


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Re: Let's Talk About Forge

Postby Tattered Rags » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:55 pm


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Re: Let's Talk About Forge

Postby kosmit » Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:14 am

In my opinion it's not a problem with the ritual lasting for a week but that it requires 8 hours. Like someone said - what weaponsmith will rent their smith for so long? More logical assumption is that owner of the forge will let other to use his forge after hours.

I would change 8 hour period to 4 hour or even like with training skills IIRC the specified number of hours (40?) which character can divide into many days (for example because he only got access to forge on weekends). Maybe with some restriction that it should last at least 2 hours/per ritual session so you can avoid half hour stops which strip the talent from it mysticism. Or if it's ritual I would drop the requirement of working at forge (it makes the problem with renting forge gone).

The last thing that popped into my mind is that for purposes of rituals 5 day weeks should be considered, so character would have a free weekend. (if I would be a Weaponsmith and somebody wanted me to use my forge on Sunday I would make them pay... A lot!)
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