Let's Talk About Forge

[etherial]

[Stormcrow]

[Slimcreeper]

I have a rule for cases where it makes sense that a test could be repeated, but I'm not interested in seeing it rolled over and over. Subtract the missed roll result from the DN. That's how many attempts it makes to succeed. Each attempt costs the same as the first. So if your forge test missed by 4, it takes 4 additional weeks before you actually succeed. If forging costs (I don't know) 10 x the weapon size in materials per attempt plus 10 sp in hammer rental, you have to pay again each week. The adept doesn't make the test again; that's just how long it takes if he wants to do it. If he doesn't want to, he doesn't. If he ever comes back to that pesky dagger, it just takes him 4 more weeks to forge it. Very embarrassing.

[Gkeckley]

First I would just like to say I like the change that you have. But, i do have a couple questions that I feel need addressing. How much of the week does it take? 8 hours a day, 16 hours a day? Can the weponsmith be doing other things, or is he solely dedicated to forging that weapon or armor every waking minute? Can he be working on more than 1 blade at a time? If he gets interrupted during the week does the time carry over. For instance the weaponsmith has been working on increasing a broadsword from +1 to +2 and has been working on it two days. He then gets called away from his forge as his group needs his help in capturing a Theran spy. 5 days later he starts working on the broadsword again. Does he start over from scratch or does he only need to complete 5 more days work? If the 2 days does count towards the time, then how much time can lapse before it does not count. So if it took 2 weeks to capture the spy does the days already worked still count? Also, I have the same question about shiels as above. If you can forge a shield does it stack with the armor that has been forged or do you just count the best bonus between the shield and armor as you should not count the effect from the same talent twice? I personally would like to see shield add to pd instead of adding to armor then you would not have this issue.

[Dougansf]

Gkeckley has a great point. When I played a Weaponsmith in 3E I was also the team Item History source, so I was burning the midnight oil during downtime to get both jobs done.

On top of which is the fact that 1 week only gains you 1 extra damage, no matter what your rank is. Why not make the TN equal to 5 + Forge bonus you want to raise it to?

I'm curious how this will factor into balance against creature stats and spells. Will creatures be such that having a Forged weapon is expected? Will higher level spells have greater damage output to keep up with Forged weapons (and Armor).

While I liked the Deflection quality of shields in 3E, it was often forgotten by the GM, never quite got the hang of it. With the removal of armor defeating hits, Deflection must be changed or gone too?

[Mataxes]

The +1 per use thing is a legacy mechanic... that's probably the one thing that all versions of the talent have had in common over the years.

I'll have a look at making the bonus from a single test equal to the number of successes -- up to the normal maximum allowed based on the rank. This would put it in a similar vein as Item History, which allows the same kind of benefit from high rolls.

As far as creature stats and spells go, it is something that is being kept in mind as we go through the creatures chapter. Spells are seeing some heavy reworking, focusing less on straight-up damage (though some of that will still be there) and looking more at generating secondary effects in addition to damage.

We're looking at limiting the utility of Forge Armor with shields, mainly to try and avoid the potential for crazy double bonuses in that area. While it makes sense for it to be used on them, for game balance reasons we need to be careful.

[CRC]

[Dougansf]

[Stormcrow]

[Utsukushi]

I like the new Forge rules, too. See? Just doing things right the first time isn't so hard! <grin>

One thought that I have often had to balance out Forging to be useful for adventurers but not so much for armies has been to make it a Blood Magic thing. Forging lasts for a year-and-a-day, just like Blood Rituals, or the little bit in the Light spell. If the Weaponsmith has to commit a point or two of his own lifeforce to maintaining each Forging that he's done, it suddenly becomes something the whole party has to think about. (Especially because if he's Forged the Swordmaster's blade, and then a month later the Swordmaster finds a Thread Item sword that he wants to use instead, now he's asking the Weaponsmith to do it again when he won't get that other life force back for almost a year still...) You couldn't maintain an arsenal like that without a city full of half-dead Weaponsmiths to back it up, but a Weaponsmith devoted to an adventuring group could maintain a couple of key people's weapons and armor just fine. It also suggests that once it is done, it can be renewed automatically -- he just chooses not to heal the damage, and doesn't need a week to redo it.

And possibly at higher Circles, as a Discipline Ability or maybe as a Group Pattern thing, it might become possible to attune a weapon to someone else so that they can maintain the Forging themselves, using their own lifeforce. (Which doesn't open it up to armies again, because armies rely on lower Circle Weaponsmiths for mass production.)