Eleventh Hour Preview: Wizard

Discussion on the Earthdawn game line, errata, and feedback not related to playing or GMing.
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Re: Eleventh Hour Preview: Wizard

Postby shiinx » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:48 am

@Tattered Rags:
Your last idea with purchaseable abilities seems to be very close to talent knacks, only that they are linked to the discipline and not to specific talent. For the sake of consistency, one could call them "Discipline Knacks".

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Re: Eleventh Hour Preview: Wizard

Postby Tattered Rags » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:16 am


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Re: Eleventh Hour Preview: Wizard

Postby Slimcreeper » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:11 am


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Re: Eleventh Hour Preview: Wizard

Postby Utsukushi » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:11 pm


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Re: Eleventh Hour Preview: Wizard

Postby Tattered Rags » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:53 pm


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Re: Eleventh Hour Preview: Wizard

Postby Danger » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:23 pm


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Re: Eleventh Hour Preview: Wizard

Postby Mataxes » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:01 pm

I appreciate all the feedback, and please feel free to keep the discussion going. Before the magician Disciplines are locked down, we're taking another look at matrices to make sure that we are meeting our intended design goals without resulting in casters becoming too overpowered (or not a positive enough play experience). I want to take a few paragraphs here to talk about matrices and spellcasting, and the problems that they face in terms of ED4 -- and as with many of the things we're examining for the new edition, it takes some looking back at prior editions to see how it has been handled in the past.

Broken down to its most basic concept, I see the spell matrix as a "variable" talent -- that is, in a place where another adept would have a focused talent, a magician has a spell prepped and ready to go, and the ability granted by that spell can be swapped out for another one more or less at will from all the spells the magician knows.

This flexibility is where the magicians really come into their own -- especially as they gain circles and get more slots under their belt. This is a flexibility that has existed since ED1. The introduction of talent options in ED3 gave the other Disciplines a bit more flexibility in terms of what abilities they can have, but that flexibility didn't really transfer to the magicians quite so well, since they would need to spend talent option slots to pick up matrices... with the weaker talent option choices magicians typically had, this can come across as not giving magicians the same degree of flexibility that other Disciplines had...

But the flexibility inherent in spellcasting is still in place. Perhaps we've got a solution looking for a problem? I don't know, but I also don't want to take for granted that just because something was done one way in a prior edition, it needs to keep being done that way in the new one.

The other thing I keep in the back of my mind as we lock down the Disciplines is the Legend Point cost involved in advancement; the non-magicians all cost more or less the same amount of Legend Points to gain power, advance in Circle, and pick up new tools. Magicians can expand their repertoire of tools just by learning a new spell -- which does not (by default) cost Legend Points in ED1 or ED3 (though it is an optional rule in ED3).

One thing that wasn't made clear in my earlier comments about the Wizard is that this new setup would shift the LP cost from the Spell Matrix talent to learning spells. Prior editions had the spell matrix rank as the maximum spell circle that could be placed in it, but there was no advantage to having a rank higher than your circle, because you couldn't put a spell in a matrix higher than your circle (presumably to keep low-Circle magicians from being able to raise talents and get access to higher powered spells as a result). Higher-Circle spells are still castable via other methods, but the difficulty or danger involved made that a pretty rare occurrence (at least in my experience).

In the end, I'm hoping -- as we are with other Disciplines -- looking to make the available choices interesting -- are you going to pick up a talent, or burn that optional slot to give yourself the increased flexibility of having more spells ready to cast? Doing that doesn't make you advance in Circle any quicker (since the points you would spend on the talent now go toward learning new spells).

I also don't want the basic spell slot management system to be more complex -- while there have been some interesting ideas presented in this thread, most of them end up with some degree of added complexity that I think runs the risk of confusing or turning off new players. Knacks are going to be in the Companion -- I don't want them to be core default as I feel they need a lot more work and analysis to make them worthwhile (I've always kind of liked them as a concept, but have found much of the execution from prior editions to be somewhat lackluster or overpowered). And as interesting as they are, the other options add a bit too much complexity to what should otherwise be a relatively basic game mechanic.

I think that by giving a small number of matrices for free, having spells (instead of Matrices) cost legend points, and giving magicians the option of taking a talent or a matrix, magicians can still have the functionality they need, while not giving them a handful of false choices. Spell matrix items will still exist, and will work the way they always have -- giving magicians the ability to have more matrices if they feel they need them.
Josh Harrison --
Troubadour and Magic Theorist
Line Developer: Earthdawn

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Re: Eleventh Hour Preview: Wizard

Postby Tattered Rags » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:27 pm


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Re: Eleventh Hour Preview: Wizard

Postby Utsukushi » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:28 pm


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Re: Eleventh Hour Preview: Wizard

Postby etherial » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:39 pm



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