Seeking some feedback on a possible ED4 change

[kosmit]

Danger but you know that Knockdown was based and STR and was so for 20 years?

[Mataxes]

I think he means that whether you need to test for Knockdown is based on Toughness (as it keys off Wound threshold).

But yes, the test itself is Strength-based.

[kosmit]

Maybe simply make toughness+strength steps the knockdown difficulty.

Or Wound threshold+STR step.

[Roth]

Wild idea here.

How about a knockdown number to go along with death rating, unconscious rating, wound threshold?
Say you have a 15 toughness: 38-DR/30-UC/10-WT/7-KD
I arrived at the 7 for knockdown by taking the old; damage-wound threshold+3=knockdown DN
and changed it to knockdown = wound threshold-3
then it becomes; damage-knockdown=knockdown DN.

I made this change around 1995. It never made all that much sense to me to subtract the wound threshold from the damage, then add 3 on top of that, why not just subtract 3 from the wound threshold and use that new number for the knockdown.

[Danger]

[Danger]

[Crusader]

How about a very small strain pool (say equal to your circle x3) which you can refill by spending karma as a free action? After you exhaust it you can alternatively use hp?

[kosmit]

[Tanthalas]

Thanks for the breakdowns Danger and kosmit! I think all of the ideas thrown out could work, and a lot of it depends on how they want 4th ed combat to go. They mentioned early on in the thread that they are looking to streamline things and 'make battles quicker'. People getting knocked down will, no question, make battles slower. I think it is still vital for knockdown to be an option, but I think that it should be fairly unlikely for it to come up. To that end here are my propositions:
a) Knockdown = Wound Threshold + 5. (Just Like kosmit's above)
b) Knockdown = Str Step + Wil Step. I think Danger had a good point about previous equations favoring the physical classes. I feel like adding this function into the willpower attribute will make it less of a dump stat for physical disciplines and push its prominence in spellcasting disciplines without being overpowered. It also makes sense in a way. Remaining on your feet is a combination of how well you take the hit and just how dern determined you are. If this equation makes people still too likely to get knocked down you could make it str + tou + wil.

For wound balance and the like I think you could keep that as an extra talent check for those who have it (similar to the avoid talents). But if you want to cut out the roll then you can just add the rank straight to your knockdown rating.

[Danger]