Seeking some feedback on a possible ED4 change

[Kasbak]

I don't usually even ask for a knockdown test unless the damage is at least an average Strength step above the wound threshhold. Maybe set the base for a knockdown to kick in as two successes above wound threshhold? You could possibly make reducing that difficulty an extra bonus for further succeses on an attack roll for certain Talents and Skills. Maybe Swift Kick for example.

[kosmit]

[Kasbak]

I meant kick in to test. If you eliminated the test all together, you would be eliminating a LOT of benefits from various Talents, Skills, and items that augment knock down tests.

[kosmit]

[Kasbak]

If you eliminate the test though, then what is the need to have Wound Balance at all? At that point, it just becomes another defense rating with a Talent behind it. This would be similar to forcing people with Avoid Blow to only take the Step as their result.

Here is how my proposal would work using your example. Your Warrior gets hit with 18 damage, armor subtracts 4, which reduces the total to 14. That's 4 beyond a wound - no extra success, no test, next initiative. Say next round he gets hit with 22 damage. After armor, that is 8 above a wound - 1 success, but still not enough to call for a test, next initiative. Say the next round he is hit with a 26. After armor, that is 22, 12 above a wound - 2 successes. Now he rolls his Wound Balance to see if he can withstand the heavy hit. It doesn't eliminate the test completely, so the LP's and time invested in Wound Balance are still used for a roll, but it eliminates slowing up combat to make a bunch of comparatively easy rolls.

[Mataxes]

On that idea, Kasbak...

How are you calculating the DN for the Knockdown test? Is it still based on the difference between the damage dealt and the Wound Threshold?

If so, then you are ending up making Knockdown a little less common, but not (in general) any harder to avoid.

Knockdown is a big tactical advantage, with nasty penalties and basically costing the affected character one of his rounds (in order to stand up). This is especially nasty at lower circles, when the numbers in general are lower to begin with. In general, I'm in favor of reducing (not eliminating) Knockdown from wounds, perhaps to make the tactical option of the Attack to Knockdown option a bit more enticing.

The idea of "spending" your successes for different options is an interesting one as well. Reminds me a little bit of the Dragon Age RPG.

[Mogre]

I also like the way Knockdown Tests are done. It does take a tiny bit of math, but it makes sense. I wouldn't change this either.

[Darth Quiris]

The Raises system of L5r is a more elegant and easier system with more tactical combat possibilities than the current system used in Earthdawn plus is way more easy for players than systems like those in Dragon Age but right now it would take more time to rework into the system and I am pretty sure it wouldn't get used but it's implementation into how Talents work would be nearly effortless, IMO.

What''s easier... having a system where the GM and players have to keep track of 1) a DN (difficulty number target), 2) then additional possible extra success thresholds to keep track of, 3) then rolling dice, 4) looking up on chart if roll is higher than DN to determine extra possible success, 5) Referring to Talent/Action being made to see what other options are there (looking to see if a Wound happened), 6) than making another roll for something like Knockdown, 7) see if any Talent can make use of that, 8) determine success of secondary roll

Or

Having a system where the GM 1) Determines DN, 2) Player can choose to add an additional effect to roll by Raising the DN a certain amount and if that roll succeeds than the additional effect happens, 3) Determine final DN, 4) Make roll and that's it. If successful than additional effect happens. Players always have the choice. GM doesn't have to keep track of all those other extra possible successes that are on the current tables because a Raise is always a flat modifier to the DN.

Than this allows Talents to be used in such ways where a Talent could offer players Free Raises... like maybe the Warrior has a Talent that specializes in Knocking down an opponent... using this Talent and Spending a Karma/Strain gives the player a Free Raise for Knockdown so even though they are using a Raise its a free one so there isn't an increase to the DN. Those points the Warrior spent on that Talent makes it easier for him to Knockdown his opponents this way AND there is no extra roll AND it streamlines the game for the GM so there are less table look ups.

[Telarus_KSC]

This thread has been on my mind for the last few days, but I've been very busy at work. I'll try to get my thoughts down tonight when I get home.

Edit:
@ Darth Quiris: I think you may still be confused about how ED3 (and previous) handles checking the Success Level (a lookup on a chart that has ranges broken out for each difficulty number, and each success level based on that difficulty number), VS how ED4 will handle Success Levels (no table lookup, just "how much did the Result beat the Difficulty? For every +5, you have earned another Success Level").

Think of the proposed +5/Success Level as Raises you can call for AFTER rolling (not before).

[Kasbak]