Seeking some feedback on a possible ED4 change

[Flowswithdrek]

Yes, Knockdown was a real problem when I finally convinced my players to have a go in the big seat. Keep it simple. Something like if you take twice the damage of the wound threshold might work. Something that makes it all or nothing and is easy to figure out.

[Darth Quiris]

Who says people fear change? I love change and embrace change and in reality change is the only constant... however I love this change in a game when it Makes Sense.

I would be fully on board if the designers wanted to change the entire dice system from the ground up, up to and including a possible change of the basic dice mechanic used in Earthdawn... if it was one that made sense. While the Dice Step system is great, there are indeed other systems out there that are better IMO that could be used in Earthdawn and still pull off the same great feel of what makes Earthdawn great.

Anyways...

There is a game that uses the Roll and Keep system and in this game system there is a rules mechanic called "Raises."

Raises ~ a simple mechanic where a player can purposely choose to increase the Difficulty of a Target Number by +5 per Raise and if the players roll is successful than the result ends up being a more successful and greater result, and of course failure means failure.

This basic mechanic could easily be included in Earthdawn and allow players a more dynamic, streamline game system. One example is the Knockdown mechanic in combat.

We would have our basic combat options... but if a person wanted to Knockdown somebody, perhaps it requires a Raise by the player, so by doing something slightly more different, probably more difficult to pull off because their attack isn't just trying to hit, but hit the target in such a way that it would cause damage AND Knockdown than it requires a higher Target Number of Difficulty.

Suddenly this opens things up to other ideas... maybe Talents could use this idea where when certain Talents reach certain Talent Ranks it unlocks potential "Raises" that the character can take advantage of, things like that. Maybe those Armor Defeating Hits are possible again... Maybe it would take 3 or 4 Raises by the player to pull off an Armor Defeating Hit, but if it does hit than it is an Armor Defeating Hit.

The best thing about a mechanic like this is its use is in the hands of the Players and not the Game Master. It gives Players more control and more options.

In a way I am surprised that more games don't use this type of mechanic. It makes it easy for things like Knockdown, Called Shot, Disarming, Feinting, Guard/Dodging, Increased Damage, things like that.

[Kasbak]

The raise mechanic is sort of already present in the current system by use of the varying successes. The main difference being that it does not have to be declared beforehand by the player, and they are not punished with total failure for the action on a roll that would have succeeded normally. As far as player vs GM control, a player can simply announce their intended action, and if there is a chart that lists the required number of successes for it, with the +5/success change made it is easy to figure what you have to roll. Besides, if the situation REALLY calls for it, a GM can decide to over rule anything.

[Darth Quiris]

[LouProsperi]

[Mogre]

I love change! I love the idea of 4th Edition Earthdawn and its potential.

However, the current system for damage is easy to understand and practical. I can think of many things that could use a change, this is not one of them. The way you described it seemed way more complicated than the way it's set up now.

I tried a Strain Pool, twice. Once I called it Stamina and once I called it Tolerance. It never really worked. It allows certain Disciplines to REALLY outshine others. I still say it might be better to just eliminate strain on certain talents, especially the talents that aren't combat specific, such as Disarm Trap, Search, and Tracking.

[zayven]

Seems I'm a bit late to this party, but I'm not fond of the idea of discarding the distinction between Death and KO Ratings. I actually think this is one of the more intuitive things about the game. For all the derisive talk about how "dumbed down" D&D is, the whole negative hit points concept STILL doesn't make any sense to me and is a massive pain in the ass to deal with in the heat of a combat session. The Death/KO distinction is clean and easy to grasp.

I agree that approaching their KO Rating tends to be a wakeup call for the players, but I'd be in favor of some kind of test that allows you to stave off unconsciousness each turn after you hit your KO Rating. It seems like simply lowering the values would accomplish the goal of making characters less "tank-ish."

I've mentioned elsewhere that I love the "Stamina" pool for Strain. If you're going to be lowering the overall value of the health ratings, I think you almost have to incorporate this mechanic.

And consider me another vote in favor of revising Knockdown. I like the concept, but in practice it just feels like way too many people hit the ground in a fight. It provides far too great of an advantage for as easy as it is to do without specifically trying (ie-doesn't require a special attack test).

[Mataxes]

Since it has come up a couple of times, what do people think about reducing the Knockdown difficulty? Specifically dropping the +3 modifier that has existed in every edition of the rules thus far? It makes it easier to resist knockdown, and makes the math a trifle easier as well.

[etherial]

[Danger]