Earthdawn: Fourth Edition coming in 2014

Discussion on the Earthdawn game line, errata, and feedback not related to playing or GMing.
Jaracove
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Re: Earthdawn: Fourth Edition coming in 2014

Postby Jaracove » Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:49 am


wodahs
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Re: Earthdawn: Fourth Edition coming in 2014

Postby wodahs » Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:59 pm

OK, I know that (almost) everything here has been constructive, but now I'm PISSED :evil: !! I have been strung along for about two years on a game masters guide to be released just after the players handbook.. I went ahead and bought the revised ed PHB to get ready to start up the system again after not playing or being in a steady environment for the last 20 years. As a player I was asked not to buy certain books to keep the plots a mystery. I got re-stationed to Germany for 3.5 years and then got out and didn't have a stable group to try to start up the ED so there it sat, on the shelf, collecting dust some 15+ ed books. I finally found a regular group, although its mostly board games, some of them are willing to experiment with ED when they read a little bit of it. (Cthulhu esk) so I go and spend some money hoping beyond hope that I can at least get something in print for a PHB & GMG in the same edition.. I even bought the mists of betrayal in hopes of having an adventure ready to start up as soon as the revised GMG was released. I was strung along when I kept asking when it would be released. End of 2nd quarter, at the game convention, before the end of the year! WTF!! AARRGGHHH Now as part of a compensation for one of my rants someone sent me a link to obtain pdf files of 3rd edition, but that is still not a book that I can just have out.. I dont have an E- Reader, and breaking out the laptop at work sometimes is frowned on.. and now after all this I went out and got the GMG and PHB online (at a hefty costs for wanting more than just digital) you are only now saying you are coming out with a WHOLE NEW EDITION? how long is THIS supposed to take? a year? 2?? 10?? in am very displeased and disheartened that that a game world I loved so much is getting what it does not deserve.. :( :? :x :wtf:

Darth Quiris
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Re: Earthdawn: Fourth Edition coming in 2014

Postby Darth Quiris » Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:57 am

As for the conversation regarding a d20 version of Earthdawn... IF the designers stripped apart the d20 system and redesigned it from the ground up to fit within the Earthdawn mythos and world than it is obviously a possibility that it could be done right. Conan as mentioned above is one of the more amazing fantasy d20 games to have ever come out and it's possible that any setting could adapt the d20 system into its world.

However, most companies just shoehorn their systems into the standard d20 system and that's what they did with the previous version of Earthdawn Pathfinder edition, which was super bad as a game.

I like the idea of the designers taking a look at other games outside Earthdawn that help with a more narrative focus like Star Wars Edge of the Empire, Warhammer Fantasy 2e, Cortex Plus (Smallville, Leverage, Marvel Heroic Roleplaying, Firefly), and other games that use the Dice Step concept like Cortex Plus games and Alternity.

I think its time we see something that shows that a 4th edition of Earthdawn is really warranted (beyond the fact that it is and it would be a great thing to get Earthdawn back out there to show that it survived the last three years of bad decision making regarding the game).

One idea I think could work is that the game's total number of Circle levels be reduced from 15 to 10. Part of the reason is that Circles 7 - 11 have always been practically dead Circles (IMO) and if those Circles were just condensed down and taken out of the game than perhaps the game could have a stronger Focus on these 10 Circles.

I think its time to kill some of Earthdawn's sacred cows with this edition.

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Re: Earthdawn: Fourth Edition coming in 2014

Postby Kasbak » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:10 pm


Henghyoke
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Re: Earthdawn: Fourth Edition coming in 2014

Postby Henghyoke » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:29 pm

Compressing the game down from 15 to 10 Circles works just fine, IMO. I ran my own ED campaign for many years doing exactly this. The primary reason for doing so was to run a campaign where player characters could get to higher Circles in a reasonable "real life" timeframe (several years of regular play). That allowed players to experience/use talent and abilities that they didn't really have access to before, because it simply took too long to get to higher Circles of play in the 15 Circle model. The scaling down also nicely filled the gap at mid-Circles. This was all based on ED1 rules, however. I don't know how it would work with ED3.

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Re: Earthdawn: Fourth Edition coming in 2014

Postby etherial » Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:34 pm


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Re: Earthdawn: Fourth Edition coming in 2014

Postby etherial » Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:37 pm


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Re: Earthdawn: Fourth Edition coming in 2014

Postby kosmit » Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:53 pm

In my opinion talents shouldn't be just "magical skills" as now. I know d20 is not liked by many of people but class abilities and skills are something I would like to see in ED.

For example:

Lock Picking (skill), Action: Sustained (text), Default: No, Strain: 1 (text)
Allows opening locks without proper keys using set of lock picks. The character makes Lock Picking Test against Lock Difficulty. Opening most locks takes more time than Standard Action but character may focus on his tast and get 1 Strain to open lock in Standard action

Magic Lockpick (Discipline talent for Thief and Scout), Karma: Yes, Strain: 0
Creates a lockpick from magical energy that can be used to open locks without any tools and may be used to open magical locks. Grants Magic Lockpick Level as a bonus to Lock Picking Test/Step and you may spend one Karma on Lock Picking Tests.

Melee Weapons (skill), Action: Standard, Default: No, Strain: 1
Character knows how to use melee weapons in combat. Make Melee Weapon Test against target's Physical Defense.

Combatant (Discipline talent for Warrior, Sky Raider, Swordmaster), Karma: No, Strain: 0
Adept adds Combatant Level to Melee Weapons Test/Step and takes no Strain for using Melee Weapons.

Second Attack(talent), Karma: No, Strain: 2 (text)
Allows second attack in a round with another Melee Weapons Test for 1 Strain. May be used to create a combo with Combatant talent but doing so increases Strain cost to 2.

Missile Weapons (skill), Action: Standard, Default: No, Strain: 0
Character knows how to use missile weapons in ranged combat. Make Missile Weapon Test against target's Physical Defense.

True Shot (Discipline talent for Archer), Karma: Yes, Strain: 0
Adept adds karma until he hits the target with Missile Weapons Test or he runs out of Karma or he will reach Missile Weapons Level.

It would definately make talents unique and powerful and requires A LOT of work to make it balanced but... I think it would be worth it. It may seem to be even more powerful than it looks by first glance but look - to lvl skill you need a lot of time, but to lvl talent you need meditation. You will have character with probably low skill level and high talent level and be badass in what you do. It is because magic fuels your natural abilities, but without it you will suck or be average.

Atr Step+Skill level+Talent lvl= Ability Step or Atr Step+Skill level= Ability Step + Talent lvl. Second option would decrease the randomness because there will always be fixed bonus to a test.

I just come with that idea so I haven't checked how it would behave statisticaly but feel free to do so. :)
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Darth Quiris
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Re: Earthdawn: Fourth Edition coming in 2014

Postby Darth Quiris » Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:36 pm

Why use skills at all?

Of all the wonderfulness that is Earthdawn the duplication of some Talents as Skills was always a baffling choice to me. If they want to keep some kind of skills than make them mundane as can be and preferably non-combat related. If there is a Talent than don't have it also as a skill. If some kind of minor NPCs need combat stats just have a NPC design system where they have simplified combat stats.

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Re: Earthdawn: Fourth Edition coming in 2014

Postby zayven » Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:51 am

I'm all in favor of slaughtering sacred cows!

I agree that this is a great time to do an honest reassessment of the game system as a whole. Earthdawn's system was innovative and unique when the game came out, but that was 20 years ago. A LOT has happened in the world of game design since then. Most of the changes we've seen in 2nd, Classic, 3rd, and Revised editions amount to fine tuning. I realize that the disciplines were totally rebuilt in Classic and again in 3rd edition, but I don't feel like anybody has sat down and looked at how ED's system compares to the myriad games that have come out in the 20 years since its release.

If the goal of 4th edition is to reach as many new players as possible (which is usually the goal when you release a new edition of a game), then I really hope that Josh and co. have taken a long, hard look at what gamers are playing now and why. I know that a lot of people here love the ED system as it is and feel that changing it too drastically will compromise the game in some way, but unless FASA Games intends to keep selling books to the same handful of hardcore ED players that have been buying them for the last decade, something pretty drastic has to change. Gamers have had twenty years to accept the game in its current form and they haven't done so.

If FASA isn't prepared to make major changes to the game, then, quite frankly, they should have just put out the Revised Gamemaster Guide and leaned on the same nostalgia that Redbrick relied upon to cater the game to a small group of hardcore players. There's nothing inherently wrong with doing that, especially in the age of print on demand and ebooks. The decision to develop a new edition suggests greater ambitions, though, and I just don't see how slapping a fresh coat of paint on the same game system that the majority of gamers have been rejecting for two decades "moves the needle" in any way.

Then again, this is all academic until we know how the Kickstarter drive turns out. Should that go poorly, then 4th edition will be smothered in its crib anyway and all this hand wringing will be for naught.


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