Sanget:
Then i do not understand you. In any system you do not know if you receive advanced character you will be lost. In such cases not knowing talents, mechanics is pain. Give 13 level cleric for anyone that do not know system. Have a nice time to explain everything (just remember that 4ed was railroad crawling system that sucks in all aspects). 3ed DnD he will be totally lost, 4 rd i do not know.
Can you give 1 system you not lost ? With magic, spells etc
As GM and Player: never play advanced char if you do not know system, it sad but true.
GM's Guide -- Anything you would like to see?
Re: GM's Guide -- Anything you would like to see?
Y'know, the system was not really all that difficult from the beginning, but the GM definitely had to be dedicated and patient enough to teach the system to players new to it. However, once players had a grip on the system, the game is like any other. Since 1st Edition dropped so many years ago, the only thing developers have actually been able to do is attempt to massage the system into something better, easier, but in my experience, it's only shifted complexity from certain portions of the game to other portions of the game. Moving certain items from point-to-point, from being temporary or Discipline-linked to being permanent just shifts the complexity. Changing numbers is just that, making it more difficult for GMs to roll with the changes. Removing or adjusting certain rules to make them 'easier' for the developers to understand does nothing to help GMs understand, and may actually remove tools from another GMs tool box.
See, Earthdawn is the ONLY game system I have ever seen that actually is a part of playing the game. I know that sounds like an untrue statement, but stick with me for a moment...
There are three parts to a role-playing game, as far as I'm concerned, though I could make an argument for four: setting, game rules, and the players. The fourth could be considered history, since the history of the game, if well-developed, could stand out from the setting though, typically, history is only a part of the setting. The original Earthdawn was, if I might say so, perfectly design, a perfect storm of role-playing game. EVERY aspect of the game is PART of the game; nearly all RPGs, including other former FASA properties -which were the best developed games of gaming history, in my opinion, and I've read a LOT of games-, have the setting, rules, and history separate, and do not include players as a part of the game universe, itself... EVERY aspect of Earthdawn, including the players, is important to the game, central rather than peripheral. In the rules, character classes are Disciplines, character levels are Circles, the names of Talents and Skills can be spoken in-character and NPCs know what the PC is talking about; there are bloody few mechanics in the game, such as dice use, successes, and only those things that really are mechanics, that are left out of the game universe itself. The history of Earthdawn is tied directly into the current setting, is a part of life in Barsaive, rather than being something that is distinctly in the past, even though every Name-Giver in the game was in hiding for more than four-hundred years, and histories over four centuries are going to be varied so widely as to be unrecognizable between one Kaer and another, one Citadel and another, between Throal and Iopos and Cara Fahd, etc. Even the use of religion in this game turns it into something so unique -the Passions are manifestations of the various... well, passions, that the Name-Givers all share-, so different from EVERY SINGLE RPG extant, that it's a welcome part of my game. In my Warhammer Fantasy Role-Playing Game, even, religion in that game is enormously important, even though the 'gods' themselves are so very nebulous.
So, when these guys go through and mess with the rules, mess with the history -they have to be enormously careful, moreso than ANY other role-playing game, even just advancing the history-, mess with the effects and descriptions of Talents, Skills, Spells, Half-Magic, Gear, etc., they're actually messing with what we would consider the True Pattern of the game. I think what they all have failed to realize is that there is no perfect Pattern with which to set THIS particular game and, as a result, though this is only the SECOND role-playing game I will ever have purchased subsequent releases for -Warhammer 2nd Edition being my second-favorite RPG of all time-, the likelihood that I will purchase them continues to diminish; after all, if I want to screw with the rules, and I have for the sake of my own game, of course, I don't need someone else telling me how to do it, or making it official.
I work very late, this afternoon, and into very early tomorrow morning, so now that the kids are off to school, I have to go back to bed.
See, Earthdawn is the ONLY game system I have ever seen that actually is a part of playing the game. I know that sounds like an untrue statement, but stick with me for a moment...
There are three parts to a role-playing game, as far as I'm concerned, though I could make an argument for four: setting, game rules, and the players. The fourth could be considered history, since the history of the game, if well-developed, could stand out from the setting though, typically, history is only a part of the setting. The original Earthdawn was, if I might say so, perfectly design, a perfect storm of role-playing game. EVERY aspect of the game is PART of the game; nearly all RPGs, including other former FASA properties -which were the best developed games of gaming history, in my opinion, and I've read a LOT of games-, have the setting, rules, and history separate, and do not include players as a part of the game universe, itself... EVERY aspect of Earthdawn, including the players, is important to the game, central rather than peripheral. In the rules, character classes are Disciplines, character levels are Circles, the names of Talents and Skills can be spoken in-character and NPCs know what the PC is talking about; there are bloody few mechanics in the game, such as dice use, successes, and only those things that really are mechanics, that are left out of the game universe itself. The history of Earthdawn is tied directly into the current setting, is a part of life in Barsaive, rather than being something that is distinctly in the past, even though every Name-Giver in the game was in hiding for more than four-hundred years, and histories over four centuries are going to be varied so widely as to be unrecognizable between one Kaer and another, one Citadel and another, between Throal and Iopos and Cara Fahd, etc. Even the use of religion in this game turns it into something so unique -the Passions are manifestations of the various... well, passions, that the Name-Givers all share-, so different from EVERY SINGLE RPG extant, that it's a welcome part of my game. In my Warhammer Fantasy Role-Playing Game, even, religion in that game is enormously important, even though the 'gods' themselves are so very nebulous.
So, when these guys go through and mess with the rules, mess with the history -they have to be enormously careful, moreso than ANY other role-playing game, even just advancing the history-, mess with the effects and descriptions of Talents, Skills, Spells, Half-Magic, Gear, etc., they're actually messing with what we would consider the True Pattern of the game. I think what they all have failed to realize is that there is no perfect Pattern with which to set THIS particular game and, as a result, though this is only the SECOND role-playing game I will ever have purchased subsequent releases for -Warhammer 2nd Edition being my second-favorite RPG of all time-, the likelihood that I will purchase them continues to diminish; after all, if I want to screw with the rules, and I have for the sake of my own game, of course, I don't need someone else telling me how to do it, or making it official.
I work very late, this afternoon, and into very early tomorrow morning, so now that the kids are off to school, I have to go back to bed.
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Re: GM's Guide -- Anything you would like to see?
Do i post in Chinese ? I am not lost. I talked about potential casual players. Not about me. Probably my players were to casual for Earthdawn.
The game system which has a lot of components, and is very accessible in my opinion is:
Edge of the Empire from FFG.
The game system which has a lot of components, and is very accessible in my opinion is:
Edge of the Empire from FFG.
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Re: GM's Guide -- Anything you would like to see?
Sangeet, welcome to the forums, glad to have another passionate GM around.
Do you have access to the 4th Edition Player's Guide preview? In my opinion, Mataxes and the dev crew has done an excellent job at making the system more accessible, for both new players and new GMs. If you don't have access, maybe we can describe some of the changes?
I'm also a big fan of the "game aids" mentioned, like card-style character sheets, talent cards, etc. Maybe we will see something like this from FASA later on.
Do you have access to the 4th Edition Player's Guide preview? In my opinion, Mataxes and the dev crew has done an excellent job at making the system more accessible, for both new players and new GMs. If you don't have access, maybe we can describe some of the changes?
I'm also a big fan of the "game aids" mentioned, like card-style character sheets, talent cards, etc. Maybe we will see something like this from FASA later on.
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Re: GM's Guide -- Anything you would like to see?
How is it more accessible to new players and new GMs?
What about the old players and GMs who have to relearn the system?
What about the old players and GMs who have to relearn the system?
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Re: GM's Guide -- Anything you would like to see?
at the risk of bringing this back on topic
1: Magical minor items that can make a small difference in combat, social/interaction tests
2: If we aren't getting a MM I guess a large and diverse monsters sorted by circle with maybe some tactics/habits
3: I think already said, don't waste space on pre-gen chars/npcs/and the like
4: Airships: how can a party really afford one and get one and if they steal one how do they keep it?
5: More low end horrors that provide a better challenge in a more even way. Seems in most editions the Horrors went from too easy to OMFPs RUN!
6: Charts, Charts, Tables, Charts, Tables . . . Can't stress enough how important it is to a GM in a game like ED to have all the charts/tables in one place. Poisons, traps, LP awards and anything else that might be needed in a session
7: More adventure settings outside of Barsaive and maybe the planes. (I know this is really going to be other books but hoping for a few pages to give some ideas for game play.)
8: Secrets: What really happened to Neden? Are there astral life boats still floating out there where Parlanith was? Who is really in charge up in Iopos? I know many would argue to make your own story line but its nice to see where the product vision is headed
1: Magical minor items that can make a small difference in combat, social/interaction tests
2: If we aren't getting a MM I guess a large and diverse monsters sorted by circle with maybe some tactics/habits
3: I think already said, don't waste space on pre-gen chars/npcs/and the like
4: Airships: how can a party really afford one and get one and if they steal one how do they keep it?
5: More low end horrors that provide a better challenge in a more even way. Seems in most editions the Horrors went from too easy to OMFPs RUN!
6: Charts, Charts, Tables, Charts, Tables . . . Can't stress enough how important it is to a GM in a game like ED to have all the charts/tables in one place. Poisons, traps, LP awards and anything else that might be needed in a session
7: More adventure settings outside of Barsaive and maybe the planes. (I know this is really going to be other books but hoping for a few pages to give some ideas for game play.)
8: Secrets: What really happened to Neden? Are there astral life boats still floating out there where Parlanith was? Who is really in charge up in Iopos? I know many would argue to make your own story line but its nice to see where the product vision is headed
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Re: GM's Guide -- Anything you would like to see?
Actually i was on topic, i wished for the GM guide to include things to make it more accessible for the new players.
But nvm, i wish of course, that monster building rules are included, and encounter balancing should be part of it.
I like the secrets idea, i.e. give us plenty of plot hook ideas. And some idea how you think a village would be organized, how a small city, and a large one. Are the still noble families around, do they still rule ? Did the post apocalypse turn the society upside down? This was never specified, and my version was still very post apocalyptic, i.e. society mostly thrown up. Probably its a good idea to let it open to our imagination.
But nvm, i wish of course, that monster building rules are included, and encounter balancing should be part of it.
I like the secrets idea, i.e. give us plenty of plot hook ideas. And some idea how you think a village would be organized, how a small city, and a large one. Are the still noble families around, do they still rule ? Did the post apocalypse turn the society upside down? This was never specified, and my version was still very post apocalyptic, i.e. society mostly thrown up. Probably its a good idea to let it open to our imagination.
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