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FASA Games, Inc. • effect tests
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effect tests

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:59 pm
by galafrone
Reading all posts, i have found that Effect Tests (damage rolls, initiative rolls, recovery rolls) are all a subgroup of the action tests

so when the rules specify modifiers for action tests, we can presume the modifiers apply also to effect tests.

but we have exceptions, like effects that don't carry over subsequent rounds dont effect intiative, for example
so a taunt lasting 1 round dont effect the initiative in the following round, while a taunt lasting 2 rounds does effect the initiative roll of the target in the 2nd round
but that same taunt effects also the damage roll of the victim ? i rember an arma post that was saying that the taunt affected the chances to hit a target, so wasnt effecting the damage rolls. or i am wrong, and it actually does ?

in this way, if i have a talent like Inspire others, that let's say gives to 2 friends of the troubadour a +2 bonus to action tests, does that +2 also effect the initiative and damage rolls in the rounds while it lasts ?

thanks for any input

Re: effect tests

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:00 pm
by slayride
All tests in the game are considered to be Action Tests. Effect Tests are a subgroup of Action Tests with a minimum result of 1, the Rule of One does not apply, nor does the Result Level Table.

Taunt:The Taunt penalty affects all Action Tests, so it subtracts a -1 to -4 penalty from all Tests during its duration.

( I go round to round. So a Swordmaster who acted on Initiative 6 who Taunted somebody has that Taunt active until Initiative 6 in the next round, which is 1 full round, so it affects Initiative in my games.)

Inspire Others bonus affects all Action Tests, so it adds a +1 to +4 bonus from all Tests during its duration.

In Savage Worlds, they separate the two type of Tests as Trait Tests and Damage rolls, where the Trait Tests gain the bonus/penalty for any Actions, but the Damage Test doesn't gain the bonus/penalty unless it directly affects it like a Wild Attack. However SW does not have Replacement effects, Initiative rolls, or Recovery Tests, so its strictly only not applied to Damage rolls so its easy to remember.

The bottom line is this, you can decide to play Earthdawn in two ways: Action Tests bonus/penalty works on all types of Tests. Any time you roll the dice apply any Action Test bonus or penalty you currently have to the test result (or add/subtract Steps). Standard method.

Action Tests bonus/penalty is applied to Action Tests that have a Difficulty Number. Effect Tests do not gain the bonus/penalty. Wounds cause a Wound penalty to Recovery Tests, so this does not fundamentally change too much. Keep in mind some Tests will no longer gain a bonus or penalty that are in fact actions such as Fireblood, Maneuver, and Wood Skin, which generate an Effect number and have no Difficulty Number (I'd still apply Wound penalties to Wood Skin and Fireblood at a minimum).

The key is to be consistent. The second method can be hard in Earthdawn because it separates thing into Action Tests that go against a Difficulty Number which have a chance of success or failure and Effect Tests that simply generate numbers.

While using the second method, the Taunt causes a -1 penalty and the Inspire Others a +2 bonus to any Action Test the character tries with a chance if failure but does not affect Initiative, Recovery, Replacement (an example of this type of Test is Maneuver which does not have a Difficulty Number, replacing your Physical Defense against an enemy by the test result), or Damage/Effect Tests.

I don't really recommend playing Earthdawn with the second method, as its simply a pain to try and remember as a Game Master what bonus/penalty does or does not apply to a Test, as we did play like that in earlier editions.

Of course, you could use the SW method as well, Action bonuses and penalties apply in all situations except for Damage/Effect rolls and maybe adding in Initiative for ease of play. This way bonuses/penalties still apply on all actions including Recovery and Replacement effects and are just dropped for the result rolls of damage and effect and maybe initiative.

Re: effect tests

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:27 pm
by galafrone
first method, or standard method, is the best i think
thanks slayride :)

the inspire other bonus, isnt +1 for quality result, isn't it ?

by the way, i had another question:
when you roll inspire others, you have to roll against the social defense of the "friendly highest social defense" then add +1 for each friendly target you want affect.
if the friends are part of a group pattern, and have weaved threads to social defense, augmenting it say from 8 base to 10, when i do the check for inspire other i have to take 8 (his basic) or 10 (the pumped) even if the target is friendly and will be buffed and not debuffed by the talent ?

Re: effect tests

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:53 pm
by slayride
Inspire Others works like Taunt and Battle Bellow, so its based on Result Level. Note the +2 is from your original example.

As for the second question, his Social Defense is 10, which becomes the Difficulty Number. Inspire Others doesn't mention anything about base Social Defense, so its their Social Defense with all threads and bonuses. Magic is generally on, it doesn't have an off switch for beneficial effects.

That said, they have a method for lowering your Spell Defense when you are targeted by a positive buff effect. You could allow the same rule for Social Defense, replacing the Perception Test with a Charisma Test (a Standard Action) and lowering the Social Defense to a minimum of 3 could be allowed to help there. Of course with a low Social Defense an enemy Taunt could humiliate them during the same round.

Re: effect tests

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:17 pm
by galafrone
thanks slay, always precious !!

Re: effect tests

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:33 pm
by slayride
your welcome galafrone.

Re: effect tests

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:48 am
by Muthare
In theory you could use the connection you have to the group to avoid the +2 from augmented social, as its like your carrying extra large shield to cover your ally so he gets +2 physical defense and then you try to push him out of harms way requireing a roll against his defense, so he shouldn't rly claim bonus he gets from your shield - its from rule of form.