hello,
We were having a small discussion yesterday at the table while playing ED.
We were besieged by a horror with the displace ability.
We were being targeted by it when it looked from astral space to physical space with the astral sight ability and it targeted us with spells and abilities.
Does that mean the players can attack the horror if it is attacking them?
basicly its this.
can a horror attack us when he is in astral space and we arent?
can we attack a horror if it shows its face with astral sight?
does a horror have to manifest in the physical realm to attack us at all?
Ukhata
horror problems
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Re: horror problems
The way I always run it is that you can use spells that are affected by Mystic Armor across the boundaries of Astral Space. So you can throw an Astral Spear at a Horror in Astral Space if you use a Talent or Spell to detect it, but you can't use something like Earth Darts. Likewise, a Horror can throw Aura Strikes at you from Astral Space, but can't cast Fireball.
But that is just in my Barsaive, your mileage may vary.
But that is just in my Barsaive, your mileage may vary.
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Re: horror problems
The way I've always run it IMB is this:
As long as the Horror can see your astral imprint, it can use magic to attack you with any mystic damage spells (WIl+X/Mystic). Physical spells (WIL+X/Physical) and attacks do not work because the Horror is in astral space and these attacks do not hurt the astral imprint. You can use Astral Sight or Astral Sense to see/sense the Horror and attack him with your mystic spells as well as long as you can see his astral imprint.
The basic way to think about it is this
Both on physical plane (you can see the target and can attack the target; you can use physical attacks and spells).
Both on astral plane (you can see the target and establish an arc to the target; you can use physical attacks and physical spells (note that damage of nonmagical weapons is miniscule since they do not have a pattern to hold substance on the astral plane)
On different planes (you can use astral sight to see each other and establish an arc to the other plane, the only thing that can travel between the planes is mystic attacks by using the astral imprint as a guide to the target; your physical attacks cannot effect things on the astral plane as they have no substance on the physical plane to attack, physical attacks on astral imprints are like hitting a reflection of a person on water, doesn't hurt the person but causes ripples in the reflection briefly).
As long as the Horror can see your astral imprint, it can use magic to attack you with any mystic damage spells (WIl+X/Mystic). Physical spells (WIL+X/Physical) and attacks do not work because the Horror is in astral space and these attacks do not hurt the astral imprint. You can use Astral Sight or Astral Sense to see/sense the Horror and attack him with your mystic spells as well as long as you can see his astral imprint.
The basic way to think about it is this
Both on physical plane (you can see the target and can attack the target; you can use physical attacks and spells).
Both on astral plane (you can see the target and establish an arc to the target; you can use physical attacks and physical spells (note that damage of nonmagical weapons is miniscule since they do not have a pattern to hold substance on the astral plane)
On different planes (you can use astral sight to see each other and establish an arc to the other plane, the only thing that can travel between the planes is mystic attacks by using the astral imprint as a guide to the target; your physical attacks cannot effect things on the astral plane as they have no substance on the physical plane to attack, physical attacks on astral imprints are like hitting a reflection of a person on water, doesn't hurt the person but causes ripples in the reflection briefly).
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Re: horror problems
But what about certain Horror Powers, like Terror, Corrupt Karma and Damage Shift, which say they require line of sight (which in my mind just means that the Horror must be able to see the characters, possibly through Astral Sight), but do not mention anything about being targeted from Astral Space?
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Re: horror problems
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Re: horror problems
You are a bad, bad person.
I like you.
I like you.
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Re: horror problems
powers that work on line of sight work if a sight arc can be drawn to the target.
See p 8 of the ED3 Earthdawn Gamemaster's Companion under Astral Attributes, Abilities, and Possessions and Combat in Astral Space.
Non-magical inanimate objects do not take on physical form in astral space. So they have no substance and can be passed through. Even that chair and table you would normally have to walk around you can walk right through (at a -2 disorientation penalty for non native astral beings though). Sure you can swing the sword at another astral being, but it only does Strength damage from the person using it. A forged weapon might add damage equal to its forging magic rating like Str + 3 for a F3 Broadsword rather than its normal Str+8. But only a thread item has a true astral imprint to it to keep its full damage.
Our Spell Design freebie for EDC actually had a lot of this information in it.
Law of the Arc: To cast a spell against a target you must be able to sense it (through one of the five senses or an extraordinary one such as astral sight, lifesight, orbiting spy etc.)
Law of the Veil: "As a general rule, spells resisted with Mystic Armor affect astral beings. Spells resisted by Physical Armor cannot be used by a caster in the physical world against targets in astral space. For example, a Wizard using Astral Sight could cast a Mind Dagger spell at a spirit in astral space, but he could not target it with a Flame Flash spell. The effect of Flame Flash is physical—it will not affect the immaterial spirit."
See p 8 of the ED3 Earthdawn Gamemaster's Companion under Astral Attributes, Abilities, and Possessions and Combat in Astral Space.
Non-magical inanimate objects do not take on physical form in astral space. So they have no substance and can be passed through. Even that chair and table you would normally have to walk around you can walk right through (at a -2 disorientation penalty for non native astral beings though). Sure you can swing the sword at another astral being, but it only does Strength damage from the person using it. A forged weapon might add damage equal to its forging magic rating like Str + 3 for a F3 Broadsword rather than its normal Str+8. But only a thread item has a true astral imprint to it to keep its full damage.
Our Spell Design freebie for EDC actually had a lot of this information in it.
Law of the Arc: To cast a spell against a target you must be able to sense it (through one of the five senses or an extraordinary one such as astral sight, lifesight, orbiting spy etc.)
Law of the Veil: "As a general rule, spells resisted with Mystic Armor affect astral beings. Spells resisted by Physical Armor cannot be used by a caster in the physical world against targets in astral space. For example, a Wizard using Astral Sight could cast a Mind Dagger spell at a spirit in astral space, but he could not target it with a Flame Flash spell. The effect of Flame Flash is physical—it will not affect the immaterial spirit."
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