Balancing Animate Object talent
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:53 pm
Firstoff, I'm playing with 3rd edition rules.
Since one of my players, a Bloodelf Nethermancer, hit Circle 8 I was preparing myself as a GM for his next circle and encountered a little problem with the Warden talent option talent called Animate Object.
Since 1st edition I really like this talent, because it makes good use of the nethermancers powers to summon spirits and bind them into objects without the usual trouble of normal summoning.
For those of you not knowing the Warden talent (Player Companion page 102) a short summary of the talent:
it animates True Pattern objects for talent rank days (with blood magic->years). the object may weight talent rankx10 pounds and the maximum number of animated objects is limited by active threads already woven and thread weaving talent rank (f.e. an nethermancer with thread weaving talent rank 10 and 6 magical items with threads woven into may only animate a maximum of 4 items. I don't really know how enhanced matrices or active thread woven into spell matrices affect this number, anyone can answer that question?).
the animated object has a PER, WIL and CHA step of animate object talent rank
the animated object has a DEX, STR and TOU step of animate object talent rank x 3 (and this is where I say as a GM: NO WAY!)
I really don't want my Nethermancer to boost this talent up to rank 10 and then animate 5 items, boost the duration via blood magic and then command an army of 5+ animated items with step numbers of 30+. Go little animated items and kill off this dragon for me, but be quick about it ..... argh, I don't like this idea at all as a GM.
To modify it I tried to compare it to the 5th circle Nethermancer spell Animate Spirit Object, which is very similar in the way the magic works. Here the effect test (WIL+5) result is divided among the physical stats to determine their steps and the GM may limit the steps due to item size or material.
I really like this method way better since it is more balanced in my opionion, but I really dislike the idea of just copying the way it works onto the animate item talent because animate object talent is only available at circle 9+ and thus should be more powerful than a simple 5th circle spell. Also the talent is limited to true pattern items whereas the spell is not, which makes the spell really more versatile and powerful.
I looked up in my 1st edition rulebook how the things where handled there:
Talent: DEX, STR, TOU as Animate Object talent rank
Maximum number of animated items equal talent rank
Death Rating value from material quality
Spell: works as talent but with fixed Death Rating and slightly higher secondary stats
I've thought some time now how to handle this problem and I really don't know how to balance this out. I outright refuse to tell my player that this talent is not an option because it is overpowered and has design flaws. I like the way this talent works for a nethermancer combining his powers over spirits with fast summoning into items. What I don't like is the idea of 10 animated items with godly stats running around with their pet nethermancer who is always there for them to re-summon them.
So anyone any ideas how to handle this? The talent should be more powerful than the spell, but it should not be this powerful as it is now.
Since one of my players, a Bloodelf Nethermancer, hit Circle 8 I was preparing myself as a GM for his next circle and encountered a little problem with the Warden talent option talent called Animate Object.
Since 1st edition I really like this talent, because it makes good use of the nethermancers powers to summon spirits and bind them into objects without the usual trouble of normal summoning.
For those of you not knowing the Warden talent (Player Companion page 102) a short summary of the talent:
it animates True Pattern objects for talent rank days (with blood magic->years). the object may weight talent rankx10 pounds and the maximum number of animated objects is limited by active threads already woven and thread weaving talent rank (f.e. an nethermancer with thread weaving talent rank 10 and 6 magical items with threads woven into may only animate a maximum of 4 items. I don't really know how enhanced matrices or active thread woven into spell matrices affect this number, anyone can answer that question?).
the animated object has a PER, WIL and CHA step of animate object talent rank
the animated object has a DEX, STR and TOU step of animate object talent rank x 3 (and this is where I say as a GM: NO WAY!)
I really don't want my Nethermancer to boost this talent up to rank 10 and then animate 5 items, boost the duration via blood magic and then command an army of 5+ animated items with step numbers of 30+. Go little animated items and kill off this dragon for me, but be quick about it ..... argh, I don't like this idea at all as a GM.
To modify it I tried to compare it to the 5th circle Nethermancer spell Animate Spirit Object, which is very similar in the way the magic works. Here the effect test (WIL+5) result is divided among the physical stats to determine their steps and the GM may limit the steps due to item size or material.
I really like this method way better since it is more balanced in my opionion, but I really dislike the idea of just copying the way it works onto the animate item talent because animate object talent is only available at circle 9+ and thus should be more powerful than a simple 5th circle spell. Also the talent is limited to true pattern items whereas the spell is not, which makes the spell really more versatile and powerful.
I looked up in my 1st edition rulebook how the things where handled there:
Talent: DEX, STR, TOU as Animate Object talent rank
Maximum number of animated items equal talent rank
Death Rating value from material quality
Spell: works as talent but with fixed Death Rating and slightly higher secondary stats
I've thought some time now how to handle this problem and I really don't know how to balance this out. I outright refuse to tell my player that this talent is not an option because it is overpowered and has design flaws. I like the way this talent works for a nethermancer combining his powers over spirits with fast summoning into items. What I don't like is the idea of 10 animated items with godly stats running around with their pet nethermancer who is always there for them to re-summon them.
So anyone any ideas how to handle this? The talent should be more powerful than the spell, but it should not be this powerful as it is now.