death and death conditions + last chance

[galafrone]

Hi all
we are having some troubles with the definition of death.
not the regular one, that is if your total hp lost is at any point equal or higher than your death threshold, but the other "conditions" that can be applied to death

1) we are using the bleeding option. if you are bleeding and your hp lost are =or> than your DT, you keep bleeding ? if not, when you stop ? is automatical ?
2) poisons: if you die by loss of hp but the poison is still "going", you keep losing hp even if you are under your DT ?
3) butchery: you are dead, your opponent keeps attacking and damaging you, is the hp loss kept tallied ?

these questions are tied with the 2 resources available to players, Last Chance spell and Last Chance Salve

we have noticed that you can use more than 1 LCS on the same dead toon. But how is going to work ?
you use the first one, and assuming your pc has all the RT, he does them
then if the pc isnt brought back to life, you can use another LCS after 1 hour
are the hp granted by that RT (if you have consumed all yours, the LCS gives you 1) added to those recovered by the previous use of an LCS ? and if yes, and you arent alive yet, you can take another LCS after the second hour and keep rolling and talling ?

also, the Last Chance spell can be used more than once on the same dead toon ?
are the results tallied or is one spell a one-shot thing that doesnt total with the subsequents LS spells used (if this is even possible) ?

this is because we cant understand exactly how the "death" is managed
i mean, i have a regular 40 UT and 50 DT (take those 2 numbers as examples)
i am at - 24 hp lost.
a lucky shot from an enemy mage does 46 hp of damage to me
i am brought to - 70, that is - 20 under my DT. I assume that the -20 means the blow has both killed me AND done me such a great damage that it will be hard, even by magic means, to "restore" life in my poor body
- my fellows adventurers use first a LS spell; lets say i roll a 12 hp recovered. i am still dead, but at - 8 hp now
are those 12 hp "kept", so a subsequent use of a LS salve can bring me up if i roll more than 8 hp on my RT (if i still have some) or the by the granted RT ?

lets say i am using the Bleeding Optional rule, at -70 (since the wound is 46 and my WT say is 10, the wound bleeds), i keep rolling the bleeding dice/accumulating the Bp, even if i am dead, until some do a "first aid" to me ?
or the bleeding doesnt accrue, since i am dead ?

well, it can be not so clear, but i will answer any question/write clarifications if the examples and the questions arent clear (now is late, and i need to sleep)

thanks anyway

[treorai]

The way that I run it is as follows:

If you are killed, you can still bleed out, but any poisons won't effect you anymore, as they rely on biological functions to do their damage (magical poisons may still cause damage to your corpse, on a case by case basis). You can still be hacked to bits, dealing more damage to your corpse, making it harder to bring you back.

In my Barsaive, I extend the whole power of Names thing a bit. The Last Chance spell and salve is your last chance. You can only do it once when you die, thus why it is Named Last Chance. If you don't heal enough damage to come back to life after someone casts Last Chance or uses the salve on you, then you are permanently dead (barring a rescue mission to Death's Realm or powerful ritual magic like Journey to Life). This makes players more likely to use other means first, saving the spell and salve for an actual last chance at bringing their friend back.

Also, keep in mind the way damage works in Earthdawn. You don't lose HP, you gain Current Damage. If you have a Unconsciousness Rating of 40, and a Death Rating of 50, you don't take 70 damage and end up at -20 HP. You take 70 damage and then have 70 Current Damage on you, and are dead because your Current Damage is above your Death Rating.

Also, this isn't a video game or an MMO. Don't call a character a toon.

[galafrone]

[treorai]

[The_Gun_Nut]

MMO what? RPG? Action? FPS?

MMO stands for Massive Multiplayer Online. With another iteration of Planetside in the offing, this is starting to become important.

[Lanah]

In my opinion the rules are pretty clear on that topic (3rd edition).
If you use the optional "Wounds that bleed" option the bleeding wound either does 2 damage per combar round or step 2 (as you desire) but the bleeding stops as soon as one of these things happen (p.222 Player's Guide):
- fall unconscious
- die
- any application of healing (bandages, booster or healing potion)
If you like to torture your players by letting them bleed beyond that, well, it is your game. Use house rules as you and your players like them.

Concerning Last Chance salves:
You can use multiple salves, this is true, one per hour. They can be applied on a dead name-giver over a period no greater than his/her Willpower or Toughness step (the higher number).

Using Last Chance spell:
You can only cast it one time on a dead Name-Giver within a minute of his death. In my opionion after that Last Chance salves can be applied.

Using Death Cheater blood charm:
One time use on death, Last Chance salves can be applied after that.

To make it clear by looking at your example:
Your maximum Death Rating is 50, you suffered 24 damage (always count damage up) then take a unlucky hit for another 46 Damage. This is a Bleeding Wound. Since your character dies, the wound stops bleeding. Your character is still dead with a total damage of 70. 20 points beyond your maximum Death Rating.
Your friends try to revive you with a Last Chance salve and you roll 12 with the recovery dice. Your character is still dead with a total damage of 58. If you have a Willpower/Toughness step >2 and your friends have another Last Chance salve and you manage to roll more than 8 on that Recovery Test your character regains life.
You can always use house rules that only ONE Last Chance method can be applied FOR ONCE, your characters have to be extra careful then. Post-scourge living is a dangerous one! You can also state that since Last Chance is a salve it only works on open wounds (cuts, bruises etc) but not on internal damage (like from many astral spells or poisons). A hard house rule, but valid in my opinion if you like extra hard/deadly gameplay.

Poisons:
The rules are not very clear on poison effects ending with death. I am only certain of one things that the poison effect of a poison that causes instant death ends with the death of a poisoned character. All other poisons with a duration run the whole duration time, that is how I handle things. Same goes with diseases.

Butchery:
Yes, if an enemy is damaging your character after dying the damage still piles up. Your character is shred to bits of junky flesh, gruesome and realistic. You still should apply common sense as a Gamemaster. Most Name-givers/Horros will chance combat target as soon as the current enemy goes down (uncounscious or dead). This does not apply to really hungry animals or insane driven horror constructs like cadaverman. Best rule is always to think what drives an attacker, what is his goal when attacking the characters?
Some foes are just hellbent on leaving bloody pulps in their wake, but be careful not to overuse this ones!

[galafrone]

thanks for the reply lanah
it's going in the same way we are dealing it
i will love other point of views anyway